IVAN AND CHRIS
IT TOOK 16 YEARS, EIGHT PROPOSALS, ONE COMMITMENT CEREMONY, TWO WEDDINGS, ONE HIGH COURT CHALLENGE, A TRIP TO CANADA AND A RACIST, XENOPHOBIC NANNA CHANGING HER MIND – BUT CHRIS AND IVAN HINTON-TEOH ARE FINALLY MARRIED! THEY TELL ANDREW CREAGH ABOUT THEIR LONG, LONG JOURNEY TOGETHER.
DNA: Two weddings and a commitment ceremony… you must be pretty good at weddings by now.
Ivan: It’s actually eight proposals, two weddings and a commitment ceremony.
Eight Proposals?
Chris: Ivan proposed to me two weeks into the relationship. I thought it was a bit too soon. Living together helped give me a better idea of whether we’d be able to weather life’s ups and downs. He proposed practically annually from there. He went all-out on the last proposal, which sealed the deal. Ivan: Despite being gay, and the 2004 [Howard government] amendment happening at the time our relationship was developing, I had an unshakable belief that marriage was part of my future. I grew up around strong and enduring marriages and I hoped for that for myself. Usually, if you propose to someone and they say no, that ends the relationship and you move on. With Chris I didn’t want to give up. From very early on, I knew life with Chris would be phenomenal. It took perseverance.
Are any of the three ceremonies you’ve had more meaningful than the others?
Chris: They’re all special in their own way.
Ivan: Each of them were big moments for us. The commitment ceremony in 2008, presided over by my Nan, was phenomenal. We had over 170 guests come together to celebrate our relationship when many had never celebrated a gay relationship before. The commitment ceremony was significant because my Nan had so quickly shifted her world view on gay people the moment she discovered her grandson was gay. She went from being a social conservative to being a champion for me.
And the wedding in Canberra in 2013?
Ivan: With Canberra’s attempt to provide equality for its LGBTIQ citizens, the significance came from the outpouring of support from our community. In the 10 days we had to prepare, the Canberra community rallied together to produce a wedding celebration we couldn’t have dreamed of planning
on our own. Despite it being the 8th proposal, it was the first time I could ask Chris to marry me knowing we could celebrate that union among family and friends.
What about the wedding in Canada?
Ivan: The significance of this moment centred around being embraced by another country in a way our own country objected to so aggressively. It was powerful because we had our family standing with us, shoulder-to-shoulder, in defiance, and with such love and acceptance.
Since marriage equality was achieved, your Canadian marriage is recognised in Australia, but it means you can’t marry in Australia because you’re already married somewhere else. Will you have to get divorced in Canada to marry again here?
Chris: Yes, and we won’t be divorcing for that. Ivan: I can assure you, the last thing on my mind is divorcing Chris. While it’s sad that we’ll never have an Australian marriage certificate, it’s also a reminder of our life journey and the prejudice that LGBTIQ Australians have experienced in our lifetime.
Your 2013 wedding at Old Parliament House, Canberra was full of family and friends, but there was also news media – is having your wedding on the weekend news a strange experience? Chris: Yes, I’m an incredibly private person. However, I felt I had to be willing to show Australians what our love and celebration looked like. That footage was used by news services from 2013 to 2017 each time the issue hit the headlines. The benefit was I didn’t have to come out to colleagues and friends so often!
Ivan: Sharing our personal stories was critical to building community support for reform. When I joined the campaign in 2011 I made the decision to campaign from a personal perspective. We weren’t paid lobbyists, we were real people. It was important to ensure Australia saw that at every opportunity. How did you feel when the High Court voided your first Australian marriage in 2013? Chris: I was devastated that the federal government was so opposed to recognising our relationship that we found ourselves in the High Court. It may have been a week after our Canberra wedding, but it was also a full five years after our Canadian wedding, and the Abbott government was so resolved to deny that reality, too.
Ivan: Not many Australians will ever know what it feels like for the federal government to go to the High Court to callously dissolve their marriage. We entered the High Court in Canberra as a married couple. When we stepped onto the forecourt to face the national media, we weren’t. It was horrible for us and every couple who married in that window. During the postal survey, how did it feel that Australia was debating your right to marry when you’d already been to Canada and done it? Chris: Terrible! Even friends we thought would be resilient during the debate were feeling down about it. The postal survey had such a damaging impact on the community.
Ivan: In 2008, when we arrived in Canada to get married, the customs official asked us the purpose
The Canadian customs official asked us the purpose of our travel. I pointed to Chris and said, ‘To get married to him.’
of our travel. I pointed to Chris and said, “To get married to him.” The customs official asked, “Why travel so far? Can’t you do it in Australia?” In 2017, nearly 10 years later, we were subjected to an entirely unnecessary national vote on the rights of some of citizens.
Why Canada? Are either of you Canadian? Chris: Ask Ivan!
Ivan: Up to and including 2008, successive governments had actively worked to prevent LGBTIQ Australians from marrying in foreign jurisdictions where it was legal to do so. Countries usually require citizens of other countries to provide a Certificate Of Non-Impediment, confirming the individual is free to marry in that jurisdiction. At that time, Australian agencies were instructed to not provide those certificates to LGBTIQ Australians if it was to be used for the purposes of a marriage inconsistent with Australian law. Canada was one of the first countries to exempt Australian citizens from providing that form, enabling us to marry.
Ivan, tell us about your grandmother officiating your 2008 commitment ceremony.
Ivan: For many years, Nan didn’t know I was gay and didn’t know I was in love with Chris. Family had decided that it was best, believing the news could kill her. This is how socially conservative we knew her to be. The second thing she ever said to Chris was, “I don’t have anything against you, but we have enough of you here now.” She was a strong supporter of Pauline Hanson’s anti-immigration policies. Five years later, and only 10 months before our wedding, I came out to Nan, frustrated that she didn’t know the whole me and despairing that she ever would. She said, “I thought I sensed the love.” So, yes, for Nan to be central in celebrating our commitment was a powerful moment. For the rest of her days she was a champion of equality.
Chris: It was amazing to witness her rapid transformation – from being a homophobic, anti-immigration Australian, to officiating our commitment ceremony. She was the perfect example of love changing a heart.
Have your families always been supportive of your relationship?
Chris: Both families struggled initially. Neither of us were out to our families at the start of our relationship. Not long after coming out to my parents, my dad said, “As long as you’re happy and you contribute to society, that’s the most important thing.”
Ivan: My parents had the advantage of getting to know Chris for several years before I came out to them. He was just the flatmate who came to Sunday family dinners… every Sunday… for years. My parents quickly recognised Chris as another son, and Chris’ family recognised me, which I am grateful for.
How did you meet and when did you fall in love? Chris: On the tennis court. I was new to Canberra and hoping to make new friends. Ivan hit me up for a coffee and we hit it off from there. Back then I didn’t know I was gay so it came as a surprise when I fell for him.
Ivan: The first thing I remember was hearing all
Not many Australians will know what it feels like for the federal government, to dissolve their marriage.
this swearing from the next court, seriously, like a sailor. I looked over and there was, this super smiley, energetic guy, smashing shots across the net, and cursing when he muffed the shot. I knew I wanted to get to know him.
So, Ivan proposed eight times…
Chris: He did. We had this joke… every time I refused him, he’d say it was my turn to propose next.
Ivan: “Every time I refused him”… like that’s normal! Eight times in total! That has to be a record.
Ivan, how did that feel?
Ivan: With each “no” my heart broke a little. The first time he finally said yes, the seventh proposal, was the first time I really put any effort into it. We’d been apart for a fortnight while he travelled overseas with family. I organised rings, a suite on the harbour with a chef that prepared a threecourse meal, monogrammed bathrobes and a masseuse. I don’t know what I would have done if he said no after all that.
When it comes to the ceremonial side of the wedding, are you quite traditional?
Chris: I’d be happy with a private ceremony and a party.
Ivan: I’m definitely traditional with a twist. The most beautiful moment in our 2013 wedding was when both sets of parents walked us up the aisle. It was so powerful that they were, effectively, delivering us to each other. Are you religious? Did you incorporate faith or religion into your vows?
Chris: No, my family is Buddhist. My folks gave us the freedom to choose what we believe.
Ivan: No.
In what ways do you feel that being married is different to being in a long-term relationship without marriage?
Chris: Marriage bestows a universal legitimacy to a relationship. Everyone understands the significance. The legal status of marriage means we don’t have to prove the legitimacy of our relationship in situations where we need access to each other or need to make decisions for one another. I hear horror stories where one of the parties is in hospital and staff refuse access to the partner because they’re not heterosexual or married. Marriage removes this risk.
Ivan: Being married to Chris is my way of saying, every day, “I want to be with you for the rest of my life.” I feel it has brought us even closer together. The significance marriage has helped our families recognise the legitimacy of our commitment to one another.
What advice do you have for those who are planning a wedding? Chris: Ask Ivan!
Ivan: Yep, I was just grateful Chris turned up. Beyond that, don’t rush. We now have all the time in the world. Keep plans simple and be flexible with whatever happens... and choose an excellent photographer. You will spend time throughout the rest of your life looking at those images and re-living every moment.