WORDS OF WISDOM

How did you start your cultural tours?

I had 18 years in National Parks with the Office of Environment and Heritage. For five years I was manager at Cultural Heritage and prior to that I worked a lot in the Northern Territory, I gained a lot of cultural knowledge there.

When I was 15, I went droving and sheering so I was always meeting with older Aboriginal men and they passed knowledge on to me. I worked in the Public Service in Canberra and then came back to Dubbo 21 years ago.

I was offered a redundancy five or six years ago, so I took it and I bought a bus and organised my First Lesson Cultural Tours.

I know most of the sites from the Queensland border to Victoria. I mainly do around Dubbo, but I do a tour around Coonabarabran, it’s a threeday tour.

We visit Pilliga Pottery; we stay overnight there. Then we go to Sculptures in the Scrub, Sandstone Caves and other significant sites in the Warrumbungles. Then we overnight in Pilliga Pottery again and the next day we go to the Pilliga Hot Bore Baths and people have a swim there in the hot water and then we make our way back to Dubbo.

I’m currently working with Phil Thompson in Native Secrets; they take the bookings and we always have bookings available through the Dubbo Information Centre.

The possum is very important to my family. Traditionally, once a baby was born, they would add possum skins together and it eventually ended up as a full-size blanket.

It’s waterproof and prior to European arrival you could sleep anywhere with it and it kept you warm. As part of my tours, I found a website in New Zealand that produces cloaks, jumpers and coats made from possum skin, so I decided to buy one of those. I use it on my tours as an educational tool.

How important is it for people to learn about Aboriginal culture?

I think it’s very important that all people learn about Aboriginal culture. We are closing the gap, but I think the best way to do it would be to come on a cultural heritage tour, not just with me but there’s other Aboriginal tour operators along the East Coast of NSW.

As far as I know I’m the only registered inland Aboriginal operator this side of the Blue Mountains. I invite all nationalities to come and learn a bit about Aboriginal culture.

What did you get up to when you were growing up?

I was brought up in Pilliga and our pastime was riding horses on weekends and after school.

I went droving at the age of 15 for about two years and then I ended up in shearing sheds and worked around Bourke, Wilcannia, Tumut and then I eventually ended up in Sydney and then Canberra. That’s where I started in the Commonwealth Public Service.

Then I got a staff sponsorship to do a degree in Agriculture which I did.

Then after that I worked with Primary Industries setting up projects within Aboriginal communities all over Australia plus Torres Strait and Tasmania.

What about the world today, doesn’t make sense?

With the Black Lives Matter (movement), I think it demonstrates that all people have got to come together to close the gap for good. It’s not only in America, these things happen all over the world with Indigenous people from whichever country.

I think we’ve got to get back to knowing culture, learning about culture, how Aboriginal people lived and how they were treated in the early years.

It was rough in the early years, we had to be off the streets by 6pm and there was a lot of open racism back then. I think it is still around but it’s not as visible as it used to be.

When I first started school, we lived 7km away and we had to walk every morning when a 20 seated bus would go past with half a dozen non-indigenous kids on it. So, we walked rain, hail or shine to get to school.

After the 1967 referendum things haven’t really changed. It created a lot of social issues when Aboriginal men and families were put off the farms because virtually all they were working for prior to 1967 was meat, sugar, tea and flour.

When the farmers had to pay them an equal rate of pay as the non-indigenous workers, a lot of them were put off the farms and properties and ended up on missions.

Once they couldn’t provide for their families it created a lot of alcoholism and a lot of conflict with the law. I think a lot of that still carries over from generation to generation.

I think it’s time the world healed, and I think learning each other’s culture is a big step in that direction.

If you were prime minister for a day, what would you do or change?

The main objective I would have would be to get Aboriginal people recognised in the constitution. I think we’re the only Indigenous people of a country that are not in the constitution or treaties. So, I think that is what I’d do.

What is your proudest accomplishment?

My proudest accomplishment was getting a degree in Agriculture. After I got the degree, doors opened, and

I went to conferences in Canada and America. I’ve also travelled all over Australia with my work.

I am also proud of working with and for Aboriginal people on their own land in the Northern Territory. I’m happy with myself and the life I’ve had. This is my favourite place, the Wiradjuri country.