Jaap Stam answers your big posers about his Man United exit, life in Italy and more
I pulled into a petrol station, and Sir Alex met me there. He got in my car, then told me I’d been sold to Lazio – it was such a shock
Jaap Stam never made an appearance for the Netherlands at youth level, but it didn’t stop him being considered the world’s best defender by his mid- 20s.
For almost a decade, the monstrous former stopper dismantled the deadliest attacks in England and Italy. Besides his on- pitch achievements, Stam’s career was intertwined with intriguing events: his Manchester United career began in a Dutch flat and then ended in a petrol station in Cheshire. In Milan, the Italian prime minister Silvio Berlusconi – who also happened to own the Rossoneri – would sometimes fly in by helicopter to make guest appearances at training.
It would have all been very confusing for a 19- year- old Stam, who snubbed second division side Zwolle’s offer of an amateur contract to focus on becoming an electrician. A year later, he relented.
“If it didn’t work out, I thought I could always go back,” he smiles now. Seven years on, Stam was conquering Europe.
He didn’t expect to manage when he retired either, but then took Reading to a play- off final, and was unveiled as the new boss of MLS side FC Cincinnati last month. But before that, he had time to answer Fourfourtwo readers’ posers…
Having made a slightly late start to your career, which moments helped you to progress?
Freddie Thornton, via email
I was about 20 when I signed for Zwolle in the second tier. After only a season I went to Cambuur, who were then in the Eredivisie. Two years later, I was at Willem II – it was all quick. Everywhere I went there was scepticism at the start, with people who weren’t sure whether I could handle the step up. I always had to fight against that and prove myself, but it kept me on my toes. In 1996 we beat European champions Ajax 1- 0, and that was a significant moment. It ended their 52- match unbeaten run.
Ajax once scouted me when I was playing for amateur side DOS Kampen, but they didn’t offer me a contract. It would have been a huge step, though, and I wonder just how far I’d have gone had that happened to me at a young age. By staying at home I was able to continue with my studies and still go out with my friends. Looking back now, it was the ideal preparation for life as a professional footballer. After only six months and about 20 appearances for Willem II, PSV came calling.
In 1996- 97, you won the title with PSV and were Dutch Footballer of the Year. What was key to your quick success?
Mike Franklin, Maryport
I had to overcome early doubts at PSV too, but managed to keep developing and growing into a role as a defender. I appeared alongside some very good players at PSV, which made it easier for me to express myself and display even more of my quality. By April 1996, I was playing for the national team as well.
How tough was losing to Brazil in the 1998 World Cup semi- finals? Would you have gone all the way?
Donal J O’driscoll, via Facebook
It was possible. We had a lot of quality and were convinced of our capabilities. We had a similar feeling after the Euro 2000 semis against Italy – maybe even more – as we missed two penalties in normal time. It was a huge blow not to win any silverware with that team.
How did your transfer to Manchester United come about?
Oscar Adkins, Leek
They had already shown their interest in 1997. Back then, though, I preferred to stay at PSV to develop and cement my place with the national team. I signed a new six- year contract, but developed faster than I thought and felt ready for the next step. United were still keen, as they kept attending games to see how I was doing. I spoke to Alex Ferguson a few times in those months – he often called after home games. Sometimes my wife would answer and shout, “It’s Ferguson on the phone.” I’d go into the bathroom and shut the door, so I could concentrate and understand his Scottish accent! I was nervous, but I think he appreciated my effort to speak English.
One day he visited me in Holland as well: we met near Schiphol airport, in the apartment of someone my agent knew. Ferguson explained his vision to me and outlined how I could be part of his team. He showed his appreciation but didn’t say I needed to come – he was just very open and told me not to worry if I didn’t want to. I think he was there to visit some other people, so it was more getting to know each other.
In the meantime, a few other clubs approached me. Ruud Gullit of Chelsea called, saying he was keen. Inter were very serious, while Juventus, Newcastle
and Rangers were interested. Right at the end, there was Liverpool, too. I got a call from Soren Lerby, an agent acting on their behalf. I met him in a hotel by PSV’S training ground and he said that Liverpool were able to offer me more than United, but in the end I preferred to go to Old Trafford. They had followed me for a long time, and every time they had said how much they wanted me.
Still, they had to negotiate with PSV, which wasn’t easy. In the end, the deal could only happen if I waived a clause entitling me to 15 per cent of the fee [ United paid £ 10.5 million, which would have given Stam £ 1.6m]. I didn’t think about it, as I was purely focused on my development. I remember travelling to Manchester on the day of United’s last home game of the 1997- 98 season to seal the deal. Before kick- off, Ferguson found time to greet me – he was always so good at that. In Holland, a manager would have been busy preparing for the match, but he took time out.
How did you feel about becoming the most expensive defender in history?
Marco Garghentino, via Instagram
I was under a lot of scrutiny during the 1998 World Cup, as I’d signed shortly before the tournament and knew I had to live up to it at Old Trafford. Because I played right to the end of France 98, I only had 10 days before pre- season started. My wife was due to give birth when I would have been away on tour, though, so she was induced to be sure I could join my new club from the start. The doctors said it was all fine, so our daughter Lisa arrived two weeks early. A couple of days after, I joined my new team- mates in Scandinavia. I noticed straight away that I was playing with better players; the pace was also higher in England, which I had to get used to. But after a few months I was at ease.
United enjoyed their most successful season ever in your debut campaign, winning the Treble. Was it all down to your impact? Commentator Mike Ingham famously said, “Without Stam, Sir Alex would still be Alex”...
Roman Owen, Ebbsfleet
No, it wasn’t only because of my arrival. Ferguson was strong in building a team. That’s why they scouted me for so long. Apart from technical ability, he looked for certain personalities and characters, and I was a missing piece of the jigsaw. Things went our way and we continued to grow and improve as a team. I didn’t know about that Mike Ingham quote – it’s very nice to hear, but I couldn’t have excelled without having many more top players around me. You need each other to reach a certain level.
What was Roy Keane really like? Is his reputation exaggerated?
Cal Pattinson, via Instagram
Roy was straightforward as a player. He was hard, tried to be fair, but if needed would sometimes cross a line. He was direct towards others, but his character was useful in our team. He’s the same when doing his punditry now – he says what he thinks, doesn’t mince his words and that’s something I can appreciate. I got on well with him, and we’re still in contact. I was in England a few months ago and asked him if he was around, but he was going to watch Salford City with the Neville brothers and Paul Scholes. We would regularly organise quiz nights when we were away on trips in Europe, and I remember Roy usually doing well – his general knowledge is pretty good, as he reads a lot and keeps up to date.
Can you describe the feeling when Ole Gunnar Solskjaer prodded in his 1999 Champions League Final winner?
Kasper Mitchell, Preston
Pure joy. I was right behind Ole when he scored, so if he’d missed, I might have been able to tap it in! Later on, I heard that some of Bayern Munich’s directors like Franz Beckenbauer and Karl- Heinz Rummenigge had made their way down from the stands to help cut the ribbons that would be tied around the cup, only to find out Bayern had squandered their 1- 0 lead in a couple of minutes. It was an extraordinary night.
How did you feel when you blasted your penalty over the crossbar in the Euro 2000 semi- final against Italy?
Myclassickits, via Instagram
It was a big disappointment, although I don’t only blame myself. I wasn’t even on the list to take a penalty. Other guys didn’t want to step forward, and Frank [ Rijkaard] came to me asking whether
I would. I was like, “Well, OK – I’ll do it.” Ultimately, anyone who takes a penalty can miss. I just tried to smash it in, but caught the ball a bit too low meaning it went too high, bouncing off the top of the bar and high into the sky.
In each of your three full seasons at United, you won the league title. How much pride does that give you, and do you think that’s why fans still admire you so much?
Maria Burns, Salford
It’s a brilliant feeling. My bond with the supporters has always been very good, and you still hear them singing my song. I enjoy going back, like when I play the occasional game for the United legends. Once you’ve been part of the club and achieved things for them, you can feel the appreciation and they are always there for you.
How horrified were you when you saw the headlines about describing the Nevilles as “busy c** ts” in your book?
Anthony Baxter, Beverley
They understood the way I’d said it. The newspaper [ Mirror] who had serialised the book had exaggerated it a bit, but it was just a way to indicate how we were together in the dressing room and how it brought us to a high level on the pitch. The Neville brothers were always talking and around for idle chat, so sometimes we would jokingly say, “Please shut up!” They knew it was said in a funny way, because afterwards they would only talk more... and louder. [ Laughs] It was like banter, but it was published as if it was serious. I also wrote about how players from certain European countries tend to go down too easily in the box. We never really got penalties, and I wrote that it got to the point where Ferguson said, “Don’t try to stay on your feet when you get a slight kick – other players wouldn’t do that, so why would you?” But then it was in the media like, ‘ Stam said that Ferguson teaches us to dive’. It wasn’t the way I said it in the book, but people respond to it as the quotes sell papers.
What was the first conversation you had with Fergie after your book came out? Couldn’t all the problems have been sorted out?
Callum Harris, Redhill
The book got serialised by The Mirror in the week of an England- Holland friendly [ August 2001]. When a paper buys the rights to publish extracts from a book, they can make up their own headlines, and that was what troubled me.
I asked them to let me know in advance, but they didn’t do that. It kept me awake at night, as I was wondering what would be in the paper the following day. Initially, Ferguson had told me not to worry about it, but on Wednesday – the morning of the match – I was informed that I should report for talks with him the next day, because he wasn’t happy about some of it. After the game, I went home and reported the next morning at 8am, because I was keen to resolve the matter. I said, “You know what’s in the book – nothing bad.” But he maintained that he wasn’t happy.
A week later, I was left out for a game against Blackburn. On the day, he called me to say I wasn’t in his squad because of the book hassle. He felt it might calm down if I wasn’t playing. We had a few conversations, although none of them were really satisfactory. A bit later that week, I was driving home from training when my agent phoned, telling me I’d been sold. I was like, “What?!” He said, “Yeah, they’ll contact you in a minute.” Moments later, Ferguson called me and asked where I was. We lived in the same area, and he told me to wait for him so that we could have a chat. I pulled into a petrol station near a shopping centre and he met me there. When he arrived, he got in my car and told me that the club had accepted an offer from Lazio. He said that he wanted to continue with two other defenders, Wes Brown and Laurent Blanc, which meant
I’d be on the bench. I felt I’d be able to regain my place eventually, but in that short amount of time, our relationship was impacted in such a way that I felt as though I wanted to leave. I think he anticipated it. Within 24 hours, I’d gone to Rome and joined Lazio.
How devastated were you to be sold so suddenly by United?
Rob Wilson, Sheffield
It was a big shock. I’d just extended my contract and was renovating my house, so wasn’t expecting to leave the club at all. I think I was sold a bit earlier, when United and Lazio met at a Champions League dinner in Monaco, and the book was given as the excuse. I don’t regret writing it, although I could have been more selective in deciding which paper should serialise it.
My departure came after I’d returned from Achilles tendon surgery. The club thought I had lost some of my strength, but it’s normal that you’re not straight back to your old best after four months of rehab. I actually felt stronger on the pitch in the end. A lot of sides from Italy and Spain were interested in signing me – I think Real Madrid were one of them – but I picked Lazio as the deadline for Champions League registration was on the horizon. Other clubs wanted to wait before making a decision, and because Lazio had already agreed a transfer with United, we could organise everything quickly. I was like, “OK, let’s do it then.”
“I WAS RIGHT JOHN ELTON BEHIND REMEMBER OLE WHEN HE SCORED THEIR AGAINST BE TO USED BAYERN, SO IF HE’D MISSED, O I MIGHT HAVE TAPPED IT IN” W
Just after I arrived in Rome, I got a call from David Beckham. The United squad had spoken about it, and he expressed the general feeling among them that I should stay. My departure was a big blow to everyone, as nobody expected it to happen. It was nice to hear that from him, and it showed how close we were as a group. That made it tough to leave, but given the situation at the time, I felt it was better for me to go.
Ferguson later admitted that selling you was a mistake – have you spoken to him about it since you left?
Leon Hunter, Isle of Wight
I’ve met him a few times since. The first was in 2006, at a press conference for an Amsterdam tournament where both Ajax and United played. At the time you could feel there was tension among the people looking around at us. We shook hands and I was asked a few questions, which I answered in a diplomatic way. I think Ferguson appreciated that. Since then, we have crossed paths more often and are getting along just fine. I’ve seen him at Old Trafford, including after his surgery. We’ve never spoken about my departure, but that’s OK: we both know how things went and it’s all water under the bridge. However, I did get a letter from the club explaining their side of the story, and I appreciated that. I always saw Ferguson and the others at United as genuine people.
After I became a boss myself, I could understand the situation clearer from the club’s point of view. Sometimes you have to sell players in order to sign new ones. They had a reason to sell me, and although it would have been nicer if it had happened in a different way, I still have many good memories of my time at United. I’m still grateful to Ferguson, and have a lot of appreciation for him as a coach and person. I’m really happy with the things we achieved together.
Is it true that you initially didn’t get paid at Lazio?
Jordon Lim, Singapore
Yes. When I arrived in Italy, I needed to organise quite a few things like my new house, then noticed that I didn’t get my salary. When I asked my team- mates, they told me they hadn’t been paid for weeks! They said, “We were surprised you signed for us and not Real Madrid.”
I was like, “Oh, well that’s nice…” I went up to the owner [ Sergio Cragnotti] and his son, who was also in charge. I didn’t get paid for something like six months. It was an ongoing process, but in the end I got everything – albeit some of it via mediation and lawsuits. Despite all of that, I liked my time at Lazio. I played with some really good players like Diego Simeone, Hernan Crespo, Claudio Lopez, Alessandro Nesta and Gaizka Mendieta, and I enjoyed the lifestyle in Rome.
I think I was at my peak in Italy, too. I was more experienced, and had grown as a player and person after my time at Old Trafford. Because of that personal development, I also felt more free in my way of playing. Before, I was focused on convincing other people by putting a lot of pressure on myself, but after leaving a big club like United – where I had won so many big trophies – I felt even better on the pitch.
You tested positive for nandrolone in October 2001 and got banned for four months – how big a surprise was that?
Stephen Lewis, London
That was a massive shock – I know for sure that I didn’t take anything, but I still had to prove my innocence. Nandrolone is a substance which can be produced by the body itself, and I was maybe one value above the maximum. I was told it only benefits endurance athletes, and only by values of thousandths anyway, so there would have been no point in me using it. Around that time, Fernando Couto, Pep Guardiola, Frank de Boer and Edgar Davids also tested positive for it. That was a reallly difficult period where I couldn’t play football for four months. Years later, I heard how the offices of the anti- doping organisation had been raided by authorities, and since then no other player has tested positive. I think that says enough.
What was Diego Simeone like at Lazio?
Ayaan Reid, St Albans
Diego was always very driven and gave it everything as a player – I like to see how he still has that passion inside him as a manager now. He does everything to get a result, which you could see in that moment when David Beckham got sent off at France 98. I got on well with him. Actually, I remember how he once almost set himself on fire by accident! Maybe it was around New Year’s Eve, as he had a box of fireworks at home and someone else had thrown something burning inside it. A rocket had gone off while Simeone was standing there. The next day, he came to training with a red head, almost no hair and no eyebrows. It was a comical sight. Luckily he wasn’t harmed and saw the funny side of it...
In 2002, Kevin Keegan reportedly bid £ 10m for you to join Manchester City. How close was the move in reality?
Lucas Elliott, Manchester
I remember it well when he called me – I was taken by surprise, because he was such a big player when I was growing up. I remember there even used to be Keegan comics, so it was quite special talking to him on the phone. City were trying to grow as a club and had heard about the financial problems at Lazio. But I didn’t join them in the end, as City weren’t like the team they are today. Deep down I also felt that I couldn’t go anyway, as I’d played for United. At Lazio, there was interest from other top Italian sides including Juventus, Milan and Inter every year. They didn’t want to sell me in the first two years, but in the third season I said, “I really want to make it happen now.” They granted my wish and then I signed for Milan.
I have to ask: did you think the 2005 Champions League Final was wrapped up at half- time, with a 3- 0 lead over Liverpool in Istanbul?
Ben Thomas, via Twitter
No, absolutely not. At the highest level, you know that a 3- 0 lead might not be enough. I’ve seen loads of stories about how we were already in a party mood
REMEMBER “SIMEONE ELTON ALMOST JOHN SET HIMSELF USED TO ON BE FIRE. THEIR THE NEXT DAY, HE CAME OWNER TO AND TRAINING HE IS MY WITH A RED HEAD, FAVOURITE LITTLE SINGER! HAIR I AND NO EYEBROWS” HOPE I GET TO MEET HIM!
at half- time, but that’s nonsense. Carlo Ancelotti was very clear as well, saying, “We have to keep going full tilt – if we can score three times in one half, then they can do it as well.” He emphasised that we should stay calm and focused. We tried to do that, but then conceded three goals in the space of six minutes.
After the first goal, there was a moment of negligence and Liverpool capitalised on it. After scoring three goals, they felt like they were now on the winning side. Despite that, we had a big chance to win it in extra time with Andriy Shevchenko, but eventually lost on penalties. It was incredibly disappointing.
As a player, you said you didn’t want to become a manager. What changed your mind and how would you outline your vision as a coach?
Joren Roskamp, Arnhem
After retiring, I was asked to help out at my local team Zwolle. There was a lack of staff, and I helped out two afternoons per week. I quite enjoyed the interaction with all of the players, and I got some positive feedback, too. Two afternoons became two days, and before I knew it I was there the whole week. I became first- team assistant and then started to develop my own vision. I like the Dutch style, with attacking play in a 4- 3- 3 setup; wingers with pace, and quick full- backs who can make overlapping runs. I like my teams to press high, but when the situation demands it, I use a slightly more cautious strategy. With Reading [ from 2016- 18], I’d implemented my style and noticed the players found it interesting. There was lots of repetition, but I encouraged players to think and even explain things in front of their team- mates. We started winning games, which gave us confidence, and after a while we were playing attractive football which took us into the play- offs.
How gutted were you to lose the 2017 Championship Play- off Final against Huddersfield with Reading? How far could that team have gone?
Ben Beaumont, via Instagram
That was a big disappointment, but at the start of the season we said, “If we finish in the top half, we can be happy.” Reading had finished 17th and 19th in the previous two seasons, so to reach the play- off final was a kind of utopia.
But when you get there and even take a lead in the penalty shootout, it’s a big disappointment when you don’t win it. It’s difficult to predict how far that team could have gone. After the final, a new owner came in and I hoped to bring in certain players, but that proved difficult. The expectations were much higher in my second year, and although we did play good football at the start, luck was less on our side. When you don’t pick up results, you know that you may lose your job. It was a bit frustrating, as I’d predicted certain things to happen, but sometimes you just have to accept it. Still, I generally look back on my Reading career with fondness. I worked really well with Brian Tevreden [ technical director] and had a good bond with the Thai owners. I’m still in contact with some of them.
Why did you resign at Feyenoord after only four months? Did it feel strange managing them as an ex- Ajax captain?
Charly Kay, via Facebook
I couldn’t operate in the way I expected. The composition of the squad was much different to what I’d anticipated before joining. I had players who hadn’t featured for a long time due to injury, or who sustained problems in pre- season. Sometimes, I’d be told that certain players could only play for half an hour, and I didn’t think I could work in a targeted manner. Many things were happening inside the club which made our expectations unrealistic, and I felt some things weren’t in line with what we’d agreed. I realised that playing for Ajax was sensitive to many fans – and I was reminded of the fact when things didn’t go well. But for me, it wasn’t like I couldn’t go and work for them. I think it’s short- sighted. At the end of the day, you’re dependent on which club offers you a deal. You have to make choices.