ARON WINTER “THE ITALIANS AT LAZIO TOOK FILMS TO WATCH On THE TEAM BUS. GAZZA NICKED THEM AND PUT MR BEAN On”
The Dutchman looks back on emerging under Johan Cruyff and sharing a dressing room with a different sort of genius
In 1986 you made your debut at Ajax under Johan Cruyff – how was your relationship with the Dutch icon?
As a young talent I joined Johan Cruyff’s Ajax and played with later legends such as Marco van Basten, Frank Rijkaard and Jan Wouters. Before my debut, Cruyff said, “Boy, enjoy it. You can make mistakes, but just have faith in yourself – do what you’re good at.” Johan saw great potential in me. In the second half of a home game against Utrecht, I came on for Rijkaard and scored with one of my first touches. My debut couldn’t have been better. Cruyff was a father figure to me – to all of us.
What was it like to play with world-class players-to-be, in Van Basten and Rijkaard?
They were way ahead of the other boys at a young age. It didn’t surprise me that they went on to have super careers. With Marco and Frank, I won the 1987 Cup Winners’ Cup at Ajax, and later we played together for the Dutch national team. In the dressing room, Marco and Frank were two of the guys who liked to take the lead. In our team you didn’t cut corners – if you did, you’d be called out. We had a wonderful group at Ajax. I’m still in contact with a lot of lads from that period.
Louis van Gaal was your coach for a time, leading Ajax to UEFA Cup success in 1992. How do you look back on that spell?
Van Gaal was a very different personality to Cruyff, but they both focused on attacking. I worked under Van Gaal for two fantastic years. He’s really demanding and works out everything, down to the last detail. Rijkaard and Van Basten had already left for Milan – they had outgrown the Eredivisie and were
playing in Italy, the best league in the world at the time – and Van Gaal’s initial task was to rebuild. Ajax has one of the greatest youth academies in the world, so new talents are always emerging: Dennis Bergkamp was Van Basten’s successor, for instance. I scored a lot of goals the year we won the UEFA Cup, too. It was a huge success for Ajax’s academy as much as anything.
In the summer of 1992, after the European Championship in Sweden, you joined Lazio. How did that transfer come about?
There was interest in me from several Italian teams that year, due to us winning the UEFA Cup final against Torino, then the Netherlands reaching the semi-finals of the Euros. I really wanted to test myself against the world-class players in Serie A, and Lazio called my agent. The fact that Van Basten and Rijkaard were already successful in Italy was inspirational to me. They were ambassadors, opening the doors for more Dutch players. Bergkamp and Wim Jonk also went to Italy, to Inter. Dennis soon noticed that the defensive Italian style didn’t suit him; in England, he turned out to be a better fit. Everyone saw that at Arsenal. At Lazio, you shared a dressing room with Paul Gascoigne – that must have given you plenty of stories…
Paul was fantastic. He was a colourful type – different from others – but he remains one of the finest English footballers ever. In our first year at Lazio, Paul was mainly recovering from an injury, but in our second season we were together in midfield. Unfortunately, he didn’t serve out his contract due to problems with the chairman. He did the craziest things. Italians at that time were quite submissive: with them it was ‘Yes mister’ or ‘No mister’. Paul just did what he wanted. When we went to the stadium by bus, the Italian boys often had videos with native films or series; once, Paul took them all away and put Blackadder and Mr Bean on. The Italians were like, “What the hell is this stuff?” I was doubled over with laughter. Years ago, I attempted to contact Paul again, but by then he was shielded from the outside world. It was very difficult for me to hear how he’s gone through life in recent years. I followed the stories from a distance. I wish him the best and hope that he’s doing much better now. Why did you leave Lazio for Inter in 1996?
Barcelona were also interested in signing me. Cruyff was the coach, but he hinted that he might not stay for much longer because of some disagreement with the Barça chairman. I didn’t want to leave Italy anyway. I almost felt like an Italian, but I was ready for a new challenge and Inter came along – a big club with a rich history. I took my family to live at Lake Como, close to Inter’s training complex. We had a view that could have been a classic painting. In Rome, we were based in the city centre; life was a lot quieter in our new village.
Inter reached the UEFA Cup final in 1997, but lost to Schalke on penalties when you missed the decisive kick. How do you look back on that evening at San Siro?
It was a sin that we didn’t win the final. We threw it all away. It was an evening to erase from our memories, certainly for me anyway. Fortunately, we took revenge a year later by winning the UEFA Cup and seeing off Schalke along the way. We faced my old club, Lazio, in the final at Paris’ Parc des Princes. We had a strong squad at Inter, but sadly we weren’t quite able to seal the league title during my three seasons there.
A year after your arrival, Ronaldo signed for Inter – what was he like to play with?
Ronaldo was one of the best footballers I ever played with – truly a phenomenon. It’s such a shame that, like Van Basten, he couldn’t go on until he was 35. Ronaldo was a very sweet and helpful boy, always there for everybody. We sometimes spoke a few words of Dutch, which he’d learned at PSV. He still had a great career despite his injuries. You can also look back on a great career, including the Netherlands’ Euro 88 trophy win. How do you remember that success?
It was awesome to experience, but I didn’t play one minute at the tournament. I’ll never forget the tribute from all the Dutch people in Amsterdam, on the canals: memories for life. It remains a pity that we didn’t win the European Championship again in 2000, in our home country. I still can’t believe we lost the semi-final against Italy. We completely outplayed the Italians, a top team, and had an extra man for more than 80 minutes after Gianluca Zambrotta saw red, but we missed two penalties in normal time and then lost the shootout. Luck often wasn’t on our side at Euros and World Cups. A couple of years earlier in ’98, we were denied a clear penalty against Brazil in the semi-finals of the World Cup. Pierre van Hooijdonk was pulled down in the box but the game continued. We then lost on penalties.
In recent years, you were assistant coach at Ajax and then the Greek national team. How do you see your future in coaching?
I had good spells as assistant with Ajax and Greece. At Ajax, I experienced the incredible 2018-19 Champions League campaign under Erik ten Hag, in which we were seconds away from defeating Tottenham and reaching the final. I grew from youth-team trainer to firstteam assistant there. After that, my friend and old team-mate, John van ’t Schip, asked me to be the assistant of the Greek national team. I think, going forward, that I’d like to stand on my own two feet again. I’m open to a new challenge as I want to stay in football. Returning to Italy would be really nice. I have many friends there.