TOTAL FILM INTERVIEW
LIFE AND DEATH IS DRAMA. SO THERE HAS TO BE SOMETHING INTENSE IN THE FILM
An in-depth career chat with the great Dane himself, Mads Mikkelsen.
He’s been a staple of tentpole cinema in Bond, Marvel, Star Wars and the upcoming Fantastic Beasts 3 and Indiana Jones 5, but Danish actor Mads Mikkelsen still manages to find time for complex dramatic work, such as in the forthcoming genre-blender, Riders Of Justice. Total Film meets a blockbuster character actor…
It would be tempting to say that Mads Mikkelsen – currently on a scorching hot streak – is having something of ‘a moment’, with two different (and really very good) character dramas on the horizon, and a role in another huge blockbuster-verse in the can. Only, calling it ‘a moment’ doesn’t take into account the fact that Mikkelsen’s been soaring like this for a couple of decades now, going from strength to strength since transitioning from a dancing career to make his feature debut in 1996’s Pusher.
One of Denmark’s greatest exports, the 55-year-old’s filmography has flourished on a diet of character dramas and the biggest mainstream properties imaginable: James Bond (Casino Royale), Marvel (Doctor Strange) and Star Wars (Rogue One). And he’s adding the Wizarding World of Harry Potter to that collection with Fantastic Beasts 3, replacing Johnny Depp as the series’ big bad, Gellert Grindelwald plus – announced as we went to press - he’s joining Indiana Jones 5. TV’s Hannibal also earned him huge pop-culture cachet, playing the cultivated cannibal over three seasons.
But despite big-ticket behemoths, the vampirically handsome Dane – all scalpelsharp cheekbones and piercing eyes – has continued to pursue complex roles in smaller European dramas. “I don’t think so much about balancing one project in Denmark with one in America,” he tells Total Film. “It’s what comes my way that I find interesting, and the people that I find interesting.”
Striking an accidental balance has been convenient, though. “It is a lucky situation, because Denmark is a small country. If you make one film a year, it’s too much. People get fed up with you! So it is a lucky thing that I can stay away for a little while.”
Mikkelsen has banked repeat collaborations with the likes of Nicolas Winding Refn, Susanne Bier, Thomas Vinterberg and Anders Thomas Jensen. Jensen has directed Mikkelsen in five films, and contributed to the screenplays of five more. It’s their latest collaboration, Riders Of Justice, that kicks off our chat today.
Evading easy genre categorisation, it’s set within a grittier milieu than Jensen’s previous films (their last collab was the bonkers Men & Chicken). Here, Mads (the ‘D’ is silent) plays Markus, a soldier who returns home in the worst of circumstances, after his wife has died. While navigating his new role as his teenage daughter’s primary carer, Markus soon learns of suspicious circumstances surrounding his wife’s death, and so begins a ragtag-team revenge plot utilising Markus’ particular set of skills.
But nothing transpires quite how you might expect. “If Jensen can give me a solid 10 to 20 surprises, that’s a good indicator for what kind of film he’s writing,” says Mikkelsen, talking via Zoom from Spain, in March 2021.
Much more laidback and easygoing than his often brooding screen presence, it’s not a surprise to find Mikkelsen in good spirits. Also coming soon to the UK is Another Round, the Thomas Vinterberg drama that has been attracting awards attention (including a Bafta nomination for Mikkelsen). With these movies and much more besides, there’s plenty to discuss with an actor enjoying the best of both worlds.
Riders Of Justice balances a broad mixture of tones: it’s dark and tragic, but also goofy, action-packed, unpredictable. Was it that tonal blend that appealed?
Yes. I’ve worked with Anders Thomas Jensen [before]. This is the universe he’s always worked in. It is very unpredictable. It is always insane. The insanity of that fairytale world has been predominantly where he has been doing his own films. But at the same time, he’s also been a writer for other various directors like Susanne Bier, which is strictly dramas. This time, it’s like the bastard child between a Susanne Bier film and an Anders Thomas Jensen film. I’m so glad he finally made that step. We were worried that we couldn’t build a bridge between those two worlds. But we did discuss it, and came up with a lot of ideas. And at the end of the day, I think it works.
This is your fifth film with Anders directing. Would you say yes to anything he offers you straight away?
If he’s directing it, yes. Absolutely. I think he’s an absolute genius, and I think he’s making films nobody else is doing. It is always very large, poetic stories, but wrapped around some insane characters. That’s the only way that he feels that he can say something as big as this.
Your character is tragic, and also a badass killer, and he has some awkward relationships, with his daughter and his male friendship group. It’s not often actors get roles with all those shades to them…
No. In many ways, he’s a one-note character, but we also have the feeling that it’s not going to last. The more he tries to stay strong and firm in his belief, the more we can see that underneath the surface, he’s just about to implode. The smallest crack in a character like this… he’s going to be so vulnerable that he either has to kill everyone around him that sees him as vulnerable, or he’s going to give up. Either way, it’s heart-breaking to watch a strong man becoming the little crying baby.
Did you enjoy the look that you had for this film, with the buzzcut and the massive beard?
Yeah, it was a huge part of it. It’s funny, because I rarely think so much about the look of a character until we’re in the midst of discussing the film. But in Thomas’ world, you often start there somehow. It’s very inspiring because, as I said, it has a fairytale feel to it, and the radical look of a character – which has been the case in all his films with my characters – does help you along. You can definitely get away with being very introverted and very brutal with this look, more than you can with curly hair and a moustache.
Is working on smaller-scale movies in Denmark and Europe very different from the big US blockbusters?
There’s always a difference. I think we try to approach the filmmaking the same way, whether we’re in Hollywood or if we’re in Copenhagen. We try to have these conversations with the director and our fellow actors, and figure out: are we on the same page? What is the goal with this? Do we think we can make it even stronger by doing this? But obviously it’s easier with old friends. We can call each other in the middle of the night with ideas, and that’s not the case in Hollywood, of course. But the approach is the same. We just say good morning to 30 people in Denmark when we go on set, and we say good morning to 300 people in Hollywood [laughs]. That’s a big difference.
Another Round is another recent European film you’ve done. Have you been surprised by how well that film has been received?
Yes and no – in the sense that when I watched the film, I was overwhelmed by it. I really, really enjoyed the film. I thought it was a very beautiful and heartbreaking story, and an embracement of life in a rare, unique way. We hoped, obviously, that other people would see that.
But at the same time, we were also worried that it was too Danish, that the drinking culture might come across as too Danish. And, on top of that, it came out in the middle of the shutdown. Watching it was like: “[gasps] Oh my God, this is illegal. They will go to jail. They’re dancing in the street. They’re drinking from the same bottle. Someone is actually kissing.”
So, again, we would easily offend a lot of people, you’d think, because obviously everyone’s offended these days by anything [laughs]. But it didn’t happen. People turned out not to be craving a film about Covid lockdown. They were craving a film about life as we used to know it.
And then the drinking culture travelled well, because every country has some kind of culture, and they can relate to it. And the message about embracing life – it was the icing on the cake that made it travel even more. So we’re surprised that it’s got so much love, but we were, at the same time, hoping that people would embrace it.
You did an alcohol boot camp for the film. What did that involve?
That involved being as specific as the teachers [in the film] are. They go very scientific. It’s 0.5, 0.8, 0.1, etcetera. We wanted to see exactly how we reacted to those levels as well. And interestingly enough, when you’re together in a room, it doesn’t feel as if much is happening. But watching it the next day, I got a lot of inspiration out of that. Because even after two beers… Whoa, all of a sudden, you don’t care that much about what your hands are
WE CAN SEE THAT UNDERNEATH THE SURFACE, HE’S ABOUT TO IMPLODE
doing. Or four beers – your little lisp is coming out again; you’ve been hiding it for 20 years, it’s back [laughs].
There’s a notable dance scene in Another
Round. In your early acting career, did your dance background feed into the acting, or are they different disciplines?
I don’t know if they’re completely different disciplines. You can often see a singer just naturally go [into a film] and be a great actor. So I think there’s a lot of criss-cross between things. I think it’s a little more difficult to go as an actor and become a singer if you can’t sing. [laughs] But there is obviously a criss-cross. There is something you’re interpreting, whether it’s a song or a physical dance or a text. You’re interpreting some kind of human emotion, right? So they have that in common.
I think it was a benefit in some regards, and in other regards not so much. I was always more in love with the drama of dancing than the aesthetics of dancing, and that’s kind of why I did pursue [acting], so I could do drama full time. But I also loved physicality. This was one of the few excuses I ever had to dance in a film, and I enjoyed every second of it, even though I was crazily rusty – but the character was as well, so that was fine.
Would you have ever liked to have done a full-on song-anddance number musical film?
Yeah, here we come back to the singing. [laughs] There is not a huge crowd of people who would pay to listen to me sing, let’s put it that way [laughs].
Pusher must have been intense as a first feature…
Yeah. It was everything I’d dreamed of. I grew up in this generation that… Nicolas [Winding Refn] came out of this generation. The Dogme thing came out. Susanne Bier came out. A lot of things were happening.
We were all fascinated with Apocalypse Now, Taxi Driver, [John] Cassavetes. And we had not done anything remotely like that in Denmark for 20 years. I think it was a starving generation coming out with those things as inspirations, and they just wanted to give it a shot. And out of that came Pusher. All of a sudden, it was just a couple of young actors and a lot of people from the street who are actors now, just playing themselves, and a young director who was like, “Let’s rock and roll. Let’s do our Mean Streets.”
I did that while I was still in drama school. So it opened a few doors for me, that was for sure.
Like Nicolas Winding Refn, there’s a handful of directors you’ve worked with more than once. Is that something you’ve done intentionally?
Well, it’s never me calling them and saying, “Please work with me.” It’s always the other way round. And they’ve all been people that I’ve enjoyed tremendously to work with. They’re very different, but equally have a fire inside of them when they make their films. And I think that’s key for me to be part of any project, that I can feel that this is an urgent project, and they have a vision for it. I’ve been very lucky that they have called me back. There’s always the risk when you know each other too well that you become lazy together. But I think that we have all, from the get-go, tried to turn that around. The comfort zone should not be a pillow. It should be a way to be comfortable enough with each other that we will push each other into areas that we wouldn’t be able to step into with other people.
Casino Royale turned out great, but at the time you were making it, was there a lot of pressure? It was a new actor as Bond, and a reinvention of the franchise.
It was a double thing. We were aware that this was new. This was a radical, different thing that we’ve not seen before. And Bond has always gone one way or another way, depending on which actor and which decade, right? The ’80s was very different than the ’60s, and so forth. But it might have come to a point where your invisible cars were getting a little too superhero-like. They wanted it a little more rough. We knew that it was a great script. So in those terms, we felt we were on to something that might be great.
At the same time, I was new, but they were not talking about the new villain; they were talking about the new Bond. So all the pressure was on Daniel [Craig]. I cannot imagine what he was going through, because it’s like the crown jewels of England. James Bond – everyone has an opinion. Every single day on his way to work, he read a headline saying he sucks; his nose was wrong; he was blond. He was being bombarded with all that crap before they had seen one single scene, which is an indicator of how important Bond is, but also how insane it is sometimes.
THERE’S NOT A HUGE CROWD OF PEOPLE WHO WOULD PAY TO LISTEN TO ME SING!
So his pressure must have been insane. But he handled it. And most importantly, he showed them, didn’t he? And they all came crawling back, saying, “I’m so sorry.” Yeah, he was great. It was probably nervewracking, but it was a great film. I think he’s the best Bond ever.
How was it filming that torture scene between the two of you?
[laughs] Oh, it was great for me. It was a long day for Daniel. That’s basically him screaming for eight hours. But we had a great time. It was actually on the cutting table for a while, in and out, because it was a little radical for Bond. But it was such a great scene, so luckily it was back in.
It was so funny, because we both came from this indie world of filmmaking. None of us had done anything of this size before. And the director, Martin Campbell, gave us some leverage. Me and Daniel just took off. We had so many ideas. At a certain point, he just had to say, “Guys, guys. Come back. This is a Bond film.” [laughs]
We left the Bond universe for a while there. But the scene was great, and Martin was right. There was a fine balance.
You’ve starred in a lot of these huge pop-culture phenomenons: Bond, Star
Wars, Marvel… What did you geek out over when you were younger?
I wasn’t a guy who was steadily watching Bond films – or Star Wars films – as a kid. I was Bruce Lee, Buster Keaton and Charles Bronson. I was so happy and pleased to be part of those worlds. But Marvel was part of my upbringing. I was reading Marvel, and I did remember Doctor Strange when I was a kid as this very colourful, ’60s acid trip. And I got to do the best of two worlds. I got to do flying kung fu like Bruce Lee in a Marvel film. It couldn’t be better.
What has the most intense fanbase out of everything you’ve done? Is there one you get recognised for the most?
The TV show Hannibal by far. I mean, Bond, of course, but Bond is a different. That will be a driver, a middle-aged man. “Can I get your photo? Can I get your autograph?”
But the Hannibal fans are a different species. They live and breathe for that. There are big fan groups that call themselves ‘Fannibals’. They get together and dress up, and they watch everything. They know the show a thousand times better than I know it. So that’s a completely different world. I am in their home. It’s a different sense of belonging. I enjoy it, though. They are very, very sweet. Without them, I don’t think we would have gotten a second or third season. They were fantastic.
Talking of Hannibal, did you ever have a chance to speak to Anthony Hopkins or Brian Cox about playing the character?
Not about playing the character. I spoke briefly [with Anthony Hopkins] on a Skype thing years ago about a different project we were both connected to, and he came across as exactly what you imagined – the sweetest man on the planet. He was a very, very nice person to talk to, and very intelligent, and of course a super-skilful actor. So I had half an hour with him and a director, and we were chatting, but not about Hannibal.
So that project didn’t work out in the end?
Yeah, that fell apart. It happens a lot these days. But Hannibal was the one thing I’ve been very lucky to step into, obviously because of him and Brian Cox. But when it’s done to perfection, the only chance we have to not commit creative suicide is to do something else, go down a different path. And luckily that was also the idea from the showrunner, Bryan Fuller. Once we agreed on that, we could take the next step. But just trying to do what [Anthony or Brian] did, would be stupid [laughs].
Did you feel that you still had more to explore with Hannibal when the show was cancelled?
Yeah. It’s a strange thing to say, because I’ve never spent so much time with a character. We can always do that in the TV world, of course. But it kept surprising. Hannibal was basically able to do whatever he wanted, because he’s a chameleon. He can switch around and do whatever.
So there was always layers of him that surprised me. All of a sudden, he was in love with a certain thing that I didn’t see. But it made sense when Bryan told me why he’s going down that path now. So yes, he was a surprising character for me. I could probably dig into him for decades, if I was allowed.
Is there any chance you’ll ever get back to or has that ship sailed now?
Hannibal,
There’s always a chance. I mean, there’s been a lot of talk in the past few years. And then Netflix has taken it up. So there won’t be a better chance than now, if Netflix wants to host it. That would be… [trails off] I think we would all want to wrap it up, if we could. Of course, it’s written as if it was wrapped up in the third season. But we had something else up our sleeve for a fourth season, and I would enjoy to see that, yeah.
In real life, you seem very laidback and funny, but you gravitate towards intense roles. What’s the attraction?
I think it’s part of drama, right? Drama is
intense. Drama is life and death. Especially with Anders Thomas Jensen – not specifically with this character – but the other ones I’ve done have been insanely crazy and quite funny characters. So I do that department as well.
But to be frank, life and death is drama. So there has to be something intense in the film. You don’t have to make it intense – the situation has to be intense, right? And the characters have to have something at stake. So intensity is part of it, I guess.
Have any intense roles particularly stuck with you? must have been heavy-going.
The Hunt
The role didn’t stick with me that much. The difference between The Hunt and Another Round is that the character in The Hunt is not the master of his own destiny. It’s not his fault.
As opposed to Another Round – I am creating all my own problems and my own solutions in Another Round. So they’re very different characters. None of them stay with me. You can say that Hannibal is a very intense character, but, at the same time, he’s probably the happiest person I’ve ever portrayed. He is absolutely sure that there is nothing more than this life, and you have to make the best out of it. So every breath, every little thing you swallow, if you drink or if you eat, or if you listen to music, it has to be exquisite. So for him, a day at the office is just a great day. That’s how you have to approach a character like that, even though he’s intense.
Looking to the future, what can we expect from
Fantastic Beasts 3?
I’m waiting to see the outcome. We’ve wrapped it up. Obviously I have only been part of it for half the time that the rest of the gang has. It was a lovely experience. I think they had a really great script; a great, solid story. So if that is anything to measure on,
I think the film will be… you know, as magical as it has to be, with all the wonderful creatures, but also quite beautiful. There are some really interesting, heartbreaking stories in there. And hopefully that will come across.
Will your version of Grindelwald be in the vein of what we’ve seen before, or are you putting your own spin on it?
A little like how we talked about Anthony Hopkins before. This is obviously a more direct comparison because it’s the next film. So we have done a few bridges that will allow us to recognise it, but we’ve also said we have to make it our own.
I have been a fan of Johnny Depp since I saw him as a young man, and to try to bring his intensity and his way of doing it into my work is a no-go. I have to find my own, because his is unique, and I just have to let that be, and find a different path.
Despite being involved in all theses huge pop-culture entities, you never seem to be pigeonholed by any of them. What’s your secret?
Obviously I’ve been playing a lot of baddies or villains. But there’s been quite a strong variation in the villains. They’re not alike. They have some things in common, but they’re also very different characters in different stories.
I think I’ve been lucky. Maybe the work from back home is enabling other directors to see me with different eyes, through different lenses. And for that reason, they see different qualities in me. I know for a fact that I got offered the Bond film because one of Barbara Broccoli’s favourite films that year was a film I did with Susanne Bier called Open Hearts. It was a family drama, and had nothing to do with being a villain in a Bond film. But for some reason, she saw that in me. So I think maybe, with any luck, it’s some of my Danish work that makes people see me through different lenses.
THE HANNIBAL FANS ARE A DIFFERENT SPECIES
RIDERS OF JUSTICE OPENS THIS SUMMER. ANOTHER ROUND OPENS ON 25 JUNE.