A CAST OF THOUSANDS

We speak to six of the nation’s most popular podcasters about the secrets of their success and how they developed a loyal bond with listeners

They are the whack-a-moles of the new media landscape, springing up faster than wildflowers in the desert after rain. If one podcast dies, another two – or 200 – take its place. To wit; the last time Weekend explored podcasts was in June 2019, citing global research giant Nielsen’s latest statistics of 750,000 individual podcasts worldwide.

Fast forward three years, and there are more than 2.4 million podcasts available for our listening pleasure – or pain. Because not all poddies (as aficionados call them) are created equal; some are less desert wildflowers, more nutgrass.

Since their emergence in the early to mid 2000s, podcasts have changed the way a now estimated 424 million people worldwide listen to stories, dissect politics, revisit history, hear the famous and infamous tell their own tales, armchair travel, or even help solve crimes.

So how to stand out from the pack? Weekend spoke to six top creators, and asked them to tell us their own stories, and their top tips for would-be podcasters.

HEDLEY THOMAS

The Teacher’s Pet; The Teacher’s Trial; The Night Driver; Shandee’s Story

Thomas’s meticulous research, storytelling and interviewing skills honed by his decades as a journalist have made his true crime podcasts a must-listen for millions of listeners worldwide.

His 2018 podcast, the 16 episode Teacher’s Pet, telling the story of the 1982 disappearance of Lynette Dawson, has, to date, more than 65 million downloads. It explored the Sydney mother of two’s marriage to Chris Dawson, his relationship with their then 16-year-old babysitter and the somewhat tawdry underbelly of the northern beaches’ public high school culture during the 1970s and 80s. Dawson was found guilty of Lynette’s murder last year, with Thomas, a Brisbane-based journalist for The Australian, also covering the court case in The Teacher’s Trial podcast.

His 2022 podcasts, Shandee’s Story (investigating the 2013 murder of Mackay’s Shandee Blackburn) and The Night Driver (exploring the 2001 disappearance of Janine Vaughan) have a combined 20 million-plus downloads.

But it’s justice, not downloads, that drives Thomas, who has a strong sense of civic duty and great empathy for victims of crime, and their families. TOP TIPS: “Doing justice with a podcast, finding new facts in an often exhaustive investigation of an unsolved crime, getting it right, and respecting the people who feature in it while also trying to make it interesting for your listeners – it’s a lot to aim for. It’s not possible unless you as the storyteller are fully committed and believing in the case or story.”

LIBBY TRICKETT All That Glitters

With an audience in the high thousands every week, and growing, Olympic swimmer Trickett interviews some of the world’s best known athletes about life after sporting glory.

“I started out just talking to interesting people, but I was at boot camp one morning and I told my friend Sarah (Wills, from the FORTY podcast) I was struggling. She said ‘You should speak to retired athletes about life after sports’ and a light bulb just went on.”

In the podcast equivalent of “write what you know”, in June 2021, Trickett began talking to athletes such as cyclist Anna Meares, swimmer Susie O’neill, and rugby union player David Pocock about their second acts.

“I love that it helps listeners dealing with their own life changes, and that it helps other athletes realise that there is a life after sport.

“I was so disappointed in myself when I got silver in the 100m freestyle at the 2008 Beijing Olympics, which I know sounds ridiculous, but as a swimmer, you don’t dream about silver.

“Listening to how other athletes have handled their own disappointments has been really helpful. Because whether it’s missing out on a gold medal, or a job promotion you really wanted, or dealing with the breakup of marriage, it still hurts, no matter who you are.” TOP TIPS: “Hell yeah … do it. But know your subject. My first idea was too broad, there were just so many general interview podcasts out there. And don’t worry about being perfect. Done is better than perfect.”

KELLIE RIORDAN Curveball

As its name suggests, Curveball is all about when life throws the unexpected at you. Hosted by Riordan from her Brisbane Deadset Studios, it takes listeners inside the crossroad moments of highprofile chief executives, politicians, sports giants, entrepreneurs and tech wizards. Launched in November 2020, featuring then Virgin chief executive Paul Scurrah on grounding an entire fleet of aircraft during the pandemic, Curveball is fascinating listening and Riordan is the perfect host, not least because the podcast came about after her own curveball moment.

“In the middle of the pandemic, I decided to chuck in my fabulous job as head of podcasts at the ABC to run my own fledgling podcast company. It was a bold and scary move, so I set out to talk to the best leaders and entrepreneurs I could find about how to thrive when the chips are down, and how to be resilient in the face of adversity,” Riordan says. Featured in Apple Podcast’s Top Five business shows, Curveball is now in its third season. TOP TIPS: “Keep going. So many podcasts fade away after a few episodes. Podcasting is hard work and there’s lots to do, so have a plan that’s sustainable. Start in the plot, take the listener on a journey, put them into a scene. Audio is theatre of the mind.”

LISE CARLAW AND SARAH WILLS

FORTY

Staring down the barrel of turning the big four-o themselves, Brisbane best mates Carlaw and Wills created Forty in November 2020, to explore the decade that many women consider a life changing one.

“It started out as the perfect ruse to seek out women to answer our own curiosities about the coming years,” Wills says, “but it quickly became something much bigger.”

After close to two million downloads, a book deal, and a diverse mix of “everyday” and famous guests (Liane Moriarty, Kaz Cooke, Tara Moss, Rebecca Sparrow, Yumi Styles, Sally Hepworth, Indira Naidoo), Forty has become what its creators hoped it would: “The podcast equivalent of a little black book for the middle years.”

Wills and Carlaw’s approach is warm and empathetic, as guests open up about everything from menopause and miscarriage, to alcoholism and ageing. There’s lots of snorting laughter too, the odd styling tip, and plenty of raw talk about difficult decisions, and the turning points that made some of Australia’s most well known women change direction.

“Our guests have taught us that entering our middle act and leaving youthful 20s and 30s behind is an opportunity to recalibrate. That’s been the beautiful learning curve of Forty.” TOP TIPS: “You can have the best sound equipment, the best production, the best voice in the world – but you won’t have an audience unless you understand who they are and what they want. Ask questions. Get curious. Be inspired by others, but always be yourself.”

JUSTIN AND KYLIE COULSON Happy Families

From their Sunshine Coast home, husband and wife team (and parents of six), the Coulsons, deliver a short, daily dollop of parenting highs and lows. Some three million people have downloaded Happy Families since it began properly in October 2020 after “a couple of false starts”, as Dr Justin Coulson, who holds a PHD in psychology, cheerfully admits.

“I think my first attempts were just too long,” he says. “I began in 2014 with ten episodes on parenting. I had another burst of enthusiasm in 2016 and 2017, where I did about 110 episodes of these hour-long shows, but nobody listened,” he says with the candidness that has made him so popular with listeners.

“I was speaking to Craig Bruce, who was then the content director at Austereo and told him I was struggling and he suggested I shorten it, and bring Kylie in. I told him she would not want to do it, that she doesn’t even like talking on the phone, and now …”

Now Kylie Coulson is as popular with the listeners as her husband – “probably more”, he chuckles. “I think people like the fact that we talk about our parenting mistakes and the things we could do better,” he says.

With an average of more than 250,000 individual downloads each month, it’s clear the Coulsons have got the mix just right. TOP TIPS: “You need to know what you want to say – the purpose of the podcast – and the more niche the better. Secondly it has to add value to people’s lives in some way, and tell your stories in your own voice. You don’t have to be perfect, but you do have to be yourself.”

SEAN SENNETT Time To Talk

Launched in 2019 by long-time music journalist, writer and founder of Time Off Media, this poddie is a deep dive into Sennett’s impressive contact book. In long-form interviews with everyone from Alice Cooper, the late Taylor Hawkins from the Foo Fighters, actor Eric Bana, and cricketer Ian Chappell, Sennett draws on his encyclopedic music knowledge and commitment to researching each subject. Thousands of listeners tune in globally each episode, with a demographic that leans heavily into the over-40s.

It’s testament to Sennett’s interviewing skills that in nearly every single interview, his subject will say: “No one’s ever asked me that question before.” TOP TIPS: “Be a good listener, and let people finish their sentences. I try to keep myself out of the story, and research is key.and always check the batteries on your recording device.”