Foreign interference cost Conservative Party up to 9 seats in 2021, O'Toole tells inquiry
Former Conservative leader Erin O'Toole told the Foreign Interference Com‐ mission inquiry Wednesday that he believes his party lost five to nine seats be‐ cause of a foreign misinfor‐ mation campaign aimed at Conservative candidates in B.C. and Ontario, and at his party more generally.
O'Toole also told the com‐ mission he might have con‐ tinued as leader after losing the 2021 federal election had it not been for Beijing's mis‐ information efforts targeting his party's campaign.
"The small number of seats would not have im‐ pacted the minority govern‐ ment that Canada has right now, but the difference of two, three, five seats may have allowed me more of a moral justification to remain as leader," he said.
O'Toole told the commis‐ sion that winning two fewer seats than the party did in the 2019 election made it very difficult for him to make that case.
Speaking in Toronto on Wednesday, Prime Minister Justin Trudeau dismissed O'‐ Toole's suggestion that for‐ eign interference cost the Conservatives seats as some‐ thing coming from "someone who lost an election … trying to look for reasons other than themselves."
Commission counsel cited policy promises in the 2021
Conservative platform ex‐ plaining how it would ap‐ proach China and asked O'‐ Toole if those pledges might explain why his party lost those five to nine seats.
The platform promised to recognize the Uyghur geno‐ cide, ban imports manufac‐ tured with forced and en‐ slaved Uyghur labour and ban Chinese mobile giant Huawei from Canada's 5G in‐ frastructure.
O'Toole dismissed the suggestion, saying that "many of these positions were positions that we previ‐ ously had" and were almost a "reassertion of our foreign policy from the Harper gov‐ ernment," when those seats were won by the party.
"In recent years there's been a ramping up of foreign interference operations and that's why I don't think some of those seats were turned because we had a more tra‐ ditional, or a more aggres‐ sive, foreign policy posture with respect to China," O'‐ Toole said. "I think a lot of people did not vote because they were intimidated."
WATCH: O'Toole says some candidates were un‐ dermined by Chinese for‐ eign interference
Foreign interference re‐ port not shared with party: O'Toole
Commission counsel also asked O'Toole about a Secu‐ rity and Intelligence Threats to Elections (SITE) Task Force assessment that was pre‐ pared a week before the 2021 federal election detail‐ ing possible foreign interfer‐ ence threats.
That document said the Rapid Response Mechanism Canada (RRM Canada), which monitors foreign state-spon‐ sored disinformation, had observed what might have been a Chinese Communist Party campaign to discour‐ age people from voting Con‐ servative.
"This was not raised to our attention," O'Toole said.
O'Toole was also asked about another RRM docu‐ ment dated around the same time that cited media outlets in Fujian province reporting a Conservative government in Canada would pursue "greater political cooperation with Taiwan."
"No, we were not in‐ formed of that," O'Toole said. "In fact we were raising in‐ stances of foreign interfer‐ ence that we witnessed and the SITE committee tended to downplay them. We were given the impression that there were no concerns about foreign interference."
Watch: Conservative Party was 'lulled into state of complacency' on foreign interference, says former leader:
The former leader said Mandarin and Cantonesespeaking campaign workers in B.C. noticed that social media platforms and chat groups in China were spread‐ ing disinformation about his party and candidates, and the party reported their con‐ cerns to SITE.
O'Toole said that the re‐ ports from the field that he remembers most clearly in‐ volved Kenny Chiu, then the Conservative MP for the B.C. riding of Steveston-Richmond East.
"The level and volume and tone of misinformation towards Mr. Chiu was hor‐ rendous," O'Toole said. "He was fearful for his own well being and that of his family and it was a personal attack of a racially motivated nature, suggesting he was a race traitor."
O'Toole said his party heard nothing back from SITE.
"The SITE process was not as complete, not as profes‐ sional and not as transparent as it should have been when there were reports like this," he said.
Under cross-examination, O'Toole was asked if he per‐ sonally flagged the informa‐ tion to SITE. He said he did not.
O'Toole said Walied Soli‐ man, the Conservative cam‐ paign co-chair for the 2021 election and the designate to the task force, was responsi‐ ble for doing that.
The former leader said he did not direct Soliman to re‐ lay the information and as‐ sumed he had done so, and did not ask him afterwards if the information had been communicated to the task force.
Chiu told the commission Wednesday that he'd hoped David Johnston, appointed by Prime Minister Trudeau as special rapporteur on foreign interference, would talk to him. He said Johnston never met with him.
Watch: 'I thought I would be protected by my country,' former MP tells foreign interference in‐ quiry:
"I thought I would be pro‐ tected by my country and I was deeply troubled, disap‐ pointed that I was exposed and the government doesn't seem to care," Chiu said.
"Now that, through the commission, I've learned that they've known all about it, it's almost like I was drowning and they were watching and the best they could do by the way was let me know that I'm drowning. I don't need their notification, I need their help."
When commission coun‐ sel asked Chiu how he would have acted differently know‐ ing what he knows now, he said, "I may not have run for office, because as an immi‐ grant it's already very chal‐ lenging to build a life here in Canada.
"To go into public service it's even more challenging," he added.
Party wanted an official warning, O'Toole says
"We wanted a caution, a pub‐ lic notice to voters to be wary of information that they were obtaining from social media, particularly foreign con‐ trolled, foreign language media," O'Toole said. He ad‐ ded he later learned the SITE taskforce felt the information did not meet the threshold for a public warning.
"At times I thought of making some sort of state‐ ment, but I was fearful of that being perceived, or op‐ ponents in the campaign us‐ ing that as some sort of wedge in a narrative that we were being discriminatory" against Asian Canadians, he said.
O'Toole said he also feared that a public state‐ ment might suggest he was criticizing Canadian institu‐ tions or that he believed the
election was rigged.
"I regret that I didn't make a statement," he said Wednesday.
Foreign Interference Committee continues
The commission of in‐ quiry, led by Quebec judge Marie-Josée Hogue, expects to hear testimony from more than 40 people, including community members, politi‐ cal party representatives and federal election officials.
The commission heard from NDP MP Jenny Kwan and current Conservative for‐ eign affairs critic Michael Chong on Wednesday after‐ noon. Both believe China has targeted them for advocating for human rights.
Kwan said the Canadian Security Intelligence Service told her that China targeted her during the 2019 election in ways she can't disclose, in reprisal for her advocacy for human rights in Hong Kong and for the Uyghur Muslim minority in China.
The Vancouver MP told the commission Wednesday that she noticed a shift in at‐ titudes in the Chinese com‐ munity in her riding as her advocacy increased.
She specifically men‐ tioned instances of con‐ stituents telling her that they were afraid to be associated with voting for her. She also described being excluded from a Lunar New Year event in her riding in 2022, despite a number of elected officials from outside of her riding being invited.
During his own testimony, Chong discussed instances during the 2019 and 2021 elections that he suspects could have been related to foreign interference.
In 2019, he said, he re‐ ceived an email from what he believed was a "spoof" Chi‐ nese government account that suggested he had been banned from entering China and Hong Kong.
A second instance Chong cited occurred during a 2021 virtual all-candidates event for Puslinch, Ont., a small rural community of only a few thousand people in his riding. Chong said he was asked loaded questions by a Chinese man who suggested his party's policies were con‐ tributing to anti-Chinese racism in Canada.
"After the debate, we asked around if anybody had ever seen or heard of this in‐ dividual and to this date no one has a clue who this per‐ son or individual is," he said, adding that Puslinch is a tightly knit community.
Ottawa expelled a Chi‐ nese diplomat last May after Canada's spy agency alleged Zhao Wei was involved in a plot to intimidate Chong's rel‐ atives in Hong Kong.
Chong said he wasn't made aware that he was a target until last year. He said that had he been notified pri‐ or to the previous two elec‐ tion campaigns, he would have gone on "high alert" during the campaigns.
"Had I known that in the previous election, I would have hit record on the Zoom all-candidates debate in Puslinch," he said.
Chiu, meanwhile, claims Chinese authorities worked against him in the 2021 fed‐ eral election after he had proposed a foreign-agent registry. Special rapporteur David Johnston said it's clear Chiu irked Chinese diplomats and that there was online misinformation about such a registry during the election, but it's unclear Beijing was behind those postings.
China strongly denies all claims it has meddled in Canadian democracy.
The ongoing hearings are part of the inquiry's work ex‐ amining possible foreign in‐ terference by China, India, Russia and others in the last two general elections.
WATCH | Former Liberal MP denies knowledge of Chinese interference in campaign:
Prime Minister Justin Trudeau, members of his cabinet and various senior government officials are also slated to appear at the hear‐ ings, which are set to con‐ clude April 10.
An initial report of find‐ ings from the commission is due May 3.
The inquiry will then shift to broader policy issues, looking at the government's ability to detect, deter and counter foreign interference. A final report is expected by the end of the year.