Lafrenière asserts UPAC neutrality
CORRUPTION ISSUES are ‘bigger than I thought, entrenched in the culture,’ investigative unit’s commissioner says
As 2013 draws to a close, The Gazette sat down with Robert Lafrenière, the head of Quebec’s permanent anti-corruption unit (UPAC), to discuss the triumphs and challenges of the past 12 months, and to find out what might be in store in 2014. This interview has been edited for clarity and length. Gazette: Overall, 2013 has been a big year for UPAC. We’ve seen the arrests of former Laval mayor Gilles Vaillancourt and Montreal mayor Michael Applebaum, and a major raid on city hall. These were all high-profile events, but what else has your unit has been doing over the last 12 months? Lafrenière: In terms of prevention, we have a team that travels across the province to carry out the prevention program. That means going to speak to people who are involved in awarding public contracts, at all levels, about the traps that can catch them, about strategies. People can be invited just to dinner, or they might be given tickets to a concert, so we tell them: ‘There’s nothing free in life. There’s a reason that you’re being offered a gift.’ It pays off, because prevention is a tool that can stop corruption.
Another thing that people don’t see is that, behind the arrests, we’ve got all of the administrative support. In the mornings, the public sees the investigators wearing the UPAC jackets and people in handcuffs, but everything that led to that — the teams in charge of wiretaps, the information-technology support staff who dig for proof — we never see them.
Q: Do you feel your budget and staff are adequate? A: We’re up to 320 people and at the start we were 189. Still, 320 isn’t actually realistic, because we’re much bigger than that. When we do an operation and the Sûreté du Québec is involved, then they supply officers to protect our investigators on the scene, technical support and even additional investigators. … So right now, I’m satisfied with the budget and the number of employees we have.
Q: The last few months have seen a number of searches in locations linked to the Quebec Liberal Party. You’ve searched the party’s headquarters, companies owned by Liberal supporters, and recently the home of longtime Liberal supporter Marc Bibeau’s sister. There is very clearly an investigation underway relating to the party. What can you tell us about that? A: Not much (laughs). We never comment on our ongoing investigations. You’re making an analysis surrounding the Liberals, but I can’t elaborate any further. With any investigation, we get started with certain goals. But investigations are always changing and new information comes out that requires us to re-adjust.
Q: A raid on the provincial Liberal headquarters last summer stirred up controversy because it didn’t become public until months later. You were accused of playing politics. What is your reaction to that, in hindsight? A: UPAC is totally neutral, totally independent. I never talk to politicians. I never talk to the minister of public safety. I don’t even talk directly with municipal officials. In the case you’re referring to, which was controversial because (the search) was supposedly hidden, I’ll say that the majority of our raids are discreet, they are not publicized. When they are, it’s often because of the number of police officers involved or because someone has an interest in telling the media (about it).
Q: So is it frustrating when someone tries to use you in that way? A: In the beginning it frustrated me, particularly at the municipal level. But we realized that people were playing politics and we didn’t join the game. When you see UPAC arriving at one place or another, people may want to use that politically to suggest that whoever is at that location is corrupt — and that’s false. Often we’re there to gather information, or for prevention, for all kinds of other verifications ... but not for a criminal investigation or an arrest.
Q: On a personal level, you have now been the head of this unit since 2011. Will you remain the head of UPAC for the foreseeable future? A: Are you saying I’m old? (laughs). Listen, I have a mandate that ends in 2016 so I have another two years and a bit. Then we’ll see. But I adore what I do, so that gives you a hint. Q: What have you learned about corruption in Quebec since taking this job? A: I’ve learned that it’s bigger than I thought. I didn’t think it would be so widespread, so entrenched in the culture. There are people for whom it’s so natural not to pay taxes, to pay people under the table ... it’s that culture we have to change.
Q: What should Quebecers expect from UPAC in 2014? A: We’re facing the challenge of quickly analyzing all the tips we have received (in 2013), so that has to continue. The addition of (the Montreal police department’s anti-corruption squad) EPIM will help us a lot, and will allow us to be more present in Montreal.
We’re also heading toward a Phase II of prevention, which will be about risk management. What we want is for people who award public contracts to identify their vulnerabilities … We’ve been working on that now for several months and it will be put in place in 2014 with help from the government and the municipalities.
I think that Quebecers know now that no matter what your status, no matter your political stripe or your function, we will arrest you if we have proof and we’re able to investigate you.