‘We’re going to get through this’
It wouldn’t have been strange for a lone white man to wander into Bible study at Emanuel African Methodist Episcopal Church in the heart of Charleston’s tourist district. And it wouldn’t have been odd for the Rev. Clementa Pinckney, who was also a state senator, to acknowledge the visitor’s presence, make sure he got a Bible and felt at home in the grand, historic church. But on Wednesday night, the surprise gunfire of a lone white stranger ripped through the South Carolina church — known as Mother Emanuel — then through the Charleston community and America beyond. Had the attack occurred two years earlier, former Mother Emanuel minister J. Anthony Josey believes he might have been among the nine dead, having been the one to run that weekly meeting. Instead, his close friend and mentor Pastor Pinckney is gone, with eight others. Josey spoke with the National Post’s Sarah Boesveld Thursday.
Q How did you learn what happened Wednesday night?
A I got a call at 9:30 p.m. and I started calling church members. I couldn’t reach (Pastor Pinckney). I called his cell number and it sounded like someone picked it up long enough to shut it off. I called back and it went straight to voice mail. Then I went to one of the other members, Rev. (Daniel) Simmons, and I got voice mail there. My heart began to sink. And so I began to call the members that were a part of the Bible study when I was there. One member, she began to tell me what she had heard and I prayed with her, and I went on to call another. And when I called this member, I reached her daughter and immediately asked about her mother and her sister because they were very loyal to the Bible study when I was there. She said, “No, we’re all here, we didn’t go. But do you know who was shot?” When I mentioned two names, I just couldn’t take the heartbreak and pain on the other end. So my wife and I said, “We’re just going to hang tight, we’re not going to call anybody else.”
Q You might have been there, had this happened two years ago.
A Absolutely. I did the Bible study up until the time I left.
Q It wouldn’t have been so strange for a white guy like that to come join Bible study?
A Absolutely not. You’re in tourist central right there where Mother Emanuel is, so you’re subject to see any person from any country, not just native to the United States. But vacationers come, they know about Mother Emanuel. We’d have strangers come to our Bible study all the time and we would welcome them in.
Q How would you describe the Mother Emanuel community?
A When you experience a communion Sunday worship, there is a lot of pomp and circumstance. When the congregation parades in, it’s almost like you can feel that connection with your African-American heritage. There’s the hymns, the songs, the Charleston Clap, which is like a three-clap sequence. It’s just so traditional that any given Sunday we would have people from anywhere around the world worshipping with us.
Q People are linking the church’s deep connection with African-American emancipation to the attack. Do you?
A We don’t know what God’s ultimate plans were, but unfortunately that evil spirit settled in at Mother Emanuel. If I know Rev. Pinckney — and I’ve seen him do this before, I’ve seen someone come in off the street, and they were a little intoxicated and they got a little irate — I saw this humble figure just appeal to the humanity in that individual. My wife and I said that we know beyond a reasonable doubt that it was Rev. Pinckney who tried to appeal to the humanness that was left in that individual.
Q How does it make you feel now that what’s happened, essentially, becomes part of the church’s history?
A I refuse to give that individual the credit of thinking that he had altered such a legacy as that of Mother Emanuel. An unfortunate incident happened in the life of Mother Emanuel just like when the church burned down (during the slave rebellion of the 1820s). But the church burning down was never the be-all, end-all of Mother Emanuel. Mother Emanuel’s congregation is one of the most resilient congregations you will find anywhere. Over 195 years that church has been a beacon in Charleston. In fact, it was the only African-American church in Charleston and it gave birth to every other African-American church. So Mother Emanuel’s legacy is bigger than any atrocity that a small individual like this could commit.
Q If Pastor Pinckney were here now to witness the fallout of this tragedy, what would he say?
A I could hear him saying these words, “We’re going to get through this.” We are definitely going to get through this and we have to remember that God is bigger than any individual act that a person — any person — could commit. This interview has been edited
and condensed.
I refuse to give that individual the credit of thinking that he had altered such a legacy as that of Mother Emanuel.... Over 195 years, that church has been a beacon in Charleston. — J. Anthony Josey, former Mother Emanuel minister