National Post (National Edition)
‘WE DIDN’T FEEL ANYBODY WAS DOING ANYTHING WRONG.’
NO INAPPROPRIATE PRESSURE ON ATTORNEY GENERAL: BUTTS
Gerald Butts, the prime minister’s former principal secretary, claimed Wednesday that no inappropriate pressure was put on ex-attorney general Jody Wilson-raybould over the Snc-lavalin affair.
In two hours of testimony to the Commons justice committee, Butts claimed that “two people can experience the same event differently,” and suggested that what Wilson-raybould interpreted as inappropriate pressure was in fact the normal process of a government grappling with a public policy decision that could put thousands of jobs at risk.
Butts, a close friend of Prime Minister Justin Trudeau’s who resigned as principal secretary last month, also said he did not believe WilsonRaybould made her concerns about pressure widely known until she was shuffled out of the Justice portfolio and into Veterans Affairs in January.
“At the end of the day, we really didn’t feel that anybody was doing anything wrong,” he said. “If this was wrong… why are we having this discussion now and not in the middle of September or October or November or December?”
Wilson-raybould appeared before the committee last week and alleged a “consistent and sustained effort by many people within the government” to persuade her to order the director of public prosecutions (DPP) to negotiate a remediation agreement with SNC-LAVAlin, which would have allowed the firm to avoid a criminal prosecution. SNCLavalin is charged with offering Libyan government officials $48 million in bribes between 2001 and 2011.
Butts claimed repeatedly that the position of the Prime Minister’s Office was that Wilson-raybould should “seek independent advice from an eminent Canadian jurist or panel of jurists” before making a decision — he mentioned former Supreme Court Chief Justice Beverley Mclachlin as one possibility. He said outside legal counsel would have been helpful because the law allowing for remediation agreements was new and had never been applied before, and because of the roughly 9,000 people SNCLavalin employed in Canada.
“The fact that the company involved employs so many people across the country heightened the public importance of the matter,” Butts said. “That was the entirety of our advice to the attorney general, which we made clear she was free to accept or not.”
But he and Privy Council clerk Michael Wernick, who testified Wednesday afternoon following an earlier appearance last month, both insisted there was no inappropriate pressure applied to Wilson-raybould to negotiate an agreement with Snc-lavalin. Wernick characterized all discussions with the former attorney general as “lawful advocacy.”
In a statement on Wed- nesday after the testimony, Wilson-raybould said she would “of course make (herself ) available to the committee if requested to give additional testimony.” However, the Liberal majority on the committee chose to debate calling further witnesses at the committee’s next meeting on March 19 — federal budget day.
In his evidence, Butts suggested the number of phone calls and meetings WilsonRaybould detailed during her testimony last week was hardly surprising on an important file. “I think that 20 points of contact over four months is not a lot of contact,” he said.
He also gave his version of two meetings he attended that Wilson-raybould detailed last week. The first was a dinner the two shared at the Château Laurier on Dec. 5, which Butts said she requested. He said WilsonRaybould only raised the issue of Snc-lavalin at the end of the meeting and asked for his opinion. He said it might help to receive outside legal advice, but told the committee there was nothing “negative” about the exchange. “I said that it was her call, and I knew it was her call.”
Wilson-raybould said that she’d requested the dinner in part to bring up “SNC and the barrage of people hounding me and my staff,” but Butts had quickly redirected the conversation to finding a “solution” for the company.
The second meeting took place on Dec. 18, between Butts, Katie Telford, the prime minister’s chief of staff, and Wilson-raybould’s chief of staff, Jessica Prince. Butts said he remembered the meeting “very, very differently” from Wilson-raybould’s account. He said the focus, again, was on whether to seek outside advice.
Wilson-raybould characterized the meeting as “urgent” and high-pressure, and last week read out texts from Prince saying that Butts had told her “there is no solution here that doesn’t involve some interference.”
“That is not what I said. I do remember that part of the conversation,” Butts told the committee. “Does asking for external advice constitute political interference? I think by any reasonable definition of the term it does not.”
Butts said he was unaware that Wilson-raybould was feeling pressured and claimed she did not make any concerns known until the cabinet shuffle. “The attorney general could have written or spoken to the prime minister at any time during this process to say attempts to contact her office on the matter were improper, and they should cease immediately,” he said. “The minister could have texted or emailed me at any time.”
Butts went on to insist that the cabinet shuffle had “absolutely nothing” to do with Snc-lavalin, and occurred only because former Treasury Board president Scott Brison resigned his seat.
It was decided to move Indigenous Services Minister Jane Philpott into the Treasury Board position and Wilson-raybould into Indigenous Services.
On Jan. 6, according to Butts, Philpott met with Trudeau and said she was excited about the challenge of Treasury Board, but worried that Wilson-raybould would see Indigenous Services as a demotion. She also said she worried that Wilson-raybould would see the decision as being related to SNC-LAVAlin. Butts said it was the first time he’d heard anyone make such a suggestion.
During a phone conversation between Trudeau and Wilson-raybould on Jan. 7, the prime minister informed the former attorney general of the shuffle and, according to Butts, offered her the Indigenous Services portfolio. Butts said there was “a long pause” on the phone, and Wilson-raybould then said she was “a little bit shocked” because the position of attorney general was “her dream job.” She then said she felt she was being shuffled for other reasons.
Wilson-raybould later turned down the Indigenous Services portfolio because she did not want to be responsible for administering the Indian Act, he said
Trudeau ultimately chose to move her to Veterans Affairs.
“There was a point where the minister asked me directly if her departure from the Ministry of Justice and Attorney General had anything whatsoever to do with the Snc-lavalin matter, and I said no,” said Butts.
“I did say, I asked her in a surprised tone whether she was questioning the integrity of the prime minister. It wasn’t an accusation, it wasn’t a threat, it was genuine surprise that someone who I had spent so much time with and that the prime minister had spent so much time with could interpret the request being ... the move in such a dark light, to be honest.”
Butts said he realized that the “trust had broken down.”
“I tried to counter her misapprehensions with repeated, honest efforts,” he said. “In the end, I was unable to do so. And here we are today.”
Wilson-raybould resigned from cabinet last month, shortly after the Globe and Mail broke a story with allegations of political interference.
Philpott also resigned from cabinet on Monday, saying she’d lost confidence in how the government had handled the affair.
DOES ASKING FOR (ADVICE) CONSTITUTE ... INTERFERENCE?