Lucy Li’s lawyer accuses witness of supplying Oliver Karafa with gun
Pair on trial for Stoney Creek shooting that killed one, wounded another
Lucy Li’s lawyer suggested Oliver Karafa’s “best friend” supplied the gun used in a fatal Stoney Creek shooting — an allegation the witness denied during a tense day in court at Li and Karafa’s murder trial Thursday.
Defence lawyer Liam O’Connor also said that the witness, Jaime Gutierrez, knew why Karafa sometimes used the name Knox, suggesting it was because Karafa killed a young man at 19 drunk driving.
Karafa’s lawyer Peter Zaduk objected to that question and the 14person jury was temporarily led out of the courtroom. When the jury returned, no further questions were asked of Gutierrez and the jury was told to return Tuesday.
Karafa and Li are charged with first-degree murder and attempted murder for the Feb. 28, 2021 shooting at an industrial property at 347 Arvin Ave. that killed Tyler Pratt and seriously hurt Jordyn Romano. Romano survived being shot in the heart, but she was 13 weeks pregnant at the time and lost her pregnancy.
Karafa and Li have pleaded not guilty.
Gutierrez told the court Karafa was one of his best friends in 2021. When asked if they were still friends Gutierrez said it was hard to say.
Early afternoon on Feb. 28, several hours before the shooting, Gutierrez sold his mom’s white Audi Q5 to Karafa for about $10,000, he said, adding that Karafa had connections selling used vehicles in Europe where it could yield higher profit. Court heard the vehicle had mechanical issues and 155,000 kilometres on it but was driveable.
The Crown alleges Karafa and Li travelled to the shooting scene in that Audi, which was later found damaged and abandoned on Green Road, near South Service Road.
Under questioning from assistant Crown attorney Steve Kim, Gutierrez claimed to not recall the answers to many questions, including some of the people who appeared on surveillance video outside his mother’s home during the vehicle sale and the context of text message exchanges with Karafa on the application Signal leading up to Feb. 28.
However, on cross-examination by Zaduk, Gutierrez agreed with multiple suggestions, including that it was Gutierrez who first raised the idea of selling the vehicle
weeks prior. Gutierrez also agreed that Karafa was afraid of Pratt and wanted to get out of doing business with him, and that Karafa told him Pratt was pressuring him to pay more money than was owed and he was afraid because Pratt was a drug dealer who had ties to bikers.
O’Connor began his cross-examination asking whether Gutierrez could see OK or had bumped his head before coming to court over his inability to answer questions beyond the suggestions by Zaduk.
“You just don’t name names sir?” O’Connor asked.
“I just don’t want to make assumptions,” Gutierrez replied.
Court has heard Karafa had a marijuana grow operation involving licences he once showed Pratt, according to testimony from Romano. On the day of the shooting Romano said she and Pratt believed they were meeting at the Stoney Creek property as a possible site for a joint grow operation.
She also said the two couples were expecting to meet the following day to finalize a $1.5million life insurance policy organized by Li through her mother’s company. The policy would help them move money from Europe where Pratt and Romano had invested in a business venture of Karafa’s supplying personal protective equipment during the pandemic.
Romano said they expected Karafa to have $500,000 for them March 1.
On Thursday, O’Connor suggested that Gutierrez helped Karafa with his grow operation business and that it was for this operation that Gutierrez had supplied Karafa a gun. Gutierrez denied being involved in the grow operation — aside from going by once — and he also denied supplying a gun.
“You had to be a little concerned that the gun you gave him for the grow-op was used in this shooting?” O’Connor said.
“I disagree,” Gutierrez answered.
“The guy that you trusted, do you know what he’s accused of ?” O’Connor said.
Gutierrez said he knew the trial was for murder.
“He’s accused of shooting a pregnant woman … crazy isn’t it?”
“Yes,” Gutierrez said.
The court was taken through pages of messages between Karafa and O’Connor from Signal that included both conversations about buying the Audi. This included a message where Karafa offered to buy it for $18,000, and Gutierrez asked for $19,000.
O’Connor accused Gutierrez of ripping off his mother, who testified to selling her vehicle for $10,000. However, Gutierrez said those conversations were part of negotiations while they figured out how much it was worth and he doesn’t remember the exact amount he got for the vehicle but it was around $10,000 to $12,000. He said any money was used to buy a new vehicle.
Also among the Signal messages were texts between Gutierrez and Karafa about what Gutierrez categorized as “drama” or “arguing” in their friend group. Court has heard that a friend of theirs named Alex, also known as Sasha, was the one who introduced Pratt and Karafa. Alex also invested in Karafa’s PPE business and wanted his money.
While initially saying he couldn’t remember what the “drama” was about, Gutierrez later agreed that Alex/Sasha wanted his money from the investment.
In the text exchange they talk about what Sasha might do and whether he knows anyone who would help him. Karafa suggests he’ll pay back the initial investment but no more.
“If he wants to go down that road then we can do that,” Karafa texted.
O’Connor suggested that Karafa was talking about shooting Sasha. Gutierrez again denied this.
“Do you know what happens to Oliver’s other partner two days later? He was shot multiple times in the face and chest,” O’Connor said.