Minister ‘stunned’ by Harris profanity
‘ I want the f---ing Indians out’ of park Harris will deny comment, lawyer says
FOREST, ONT.— Only hours before native activist Anthony ( Dudley) George was shot dead outside Ipperwash Provincial Park, former premier Mike Harris angrily said, “ I want the f--- ing Indians out of the park,” a public inquiry heard yesterday. The bombshell came from former attorney general Charles Harnick on his second day on the witness stand at the public inquiry into George’s death in a massive police operation late at night Sept. 6, 1995, at the park on Lake Huron.
“ The premier, in a loud voice, said, ‘ I want the f--- ing Indians out of the park,’ ” recalled Harnick, who said the comments left him shocked and stunned.
Harnick, who was also native affairs minister at the time, said he heard Harris’s outburst almost immediately after he walked into an early- afternoon
meeting in the premier’s private dining room at Queen’s Park. The meeting was called to discuss a native occupation of the park near Sarnia. It was also attended by former solicitor general Bob Runciman, former minister of natural resources Chris Hodgson, two Ontario Provincial Police officers and civil servants.
“ Certainly I was stunned by the comment,” Harnick continued.
“ Did you hear anything else to do with guns as far as getting the f--- ing Indians out of the park?” asked commission lawyer Don Worme, himself a Cree native from Saskatchewan.
“ Absolutely not,” Harnick replied.
Harris’s lawyer, Peter Downard, told Harnick that Harris will deny making the comment, and noted eight other witnesses who attended the same meeting have already testified before the inquiry and none has recalled Harris saying, “ I want the f--- ing Indians out of the park.” “He ( Harris) does not recall saying anything like that in the meeting,” Downard told Harnick. “. . . Does that give you pause?” “Do you know how difficult this has been for me?” Harnick replied.
“ I have nothing but admiration for the premier . . . I have agonized over this . . . Certainly the premier is a human being. He made a mistake.”
“ Is there any possibility that someone else made the statement?” Downard said.
“ I don’t believe so,” Harnick replied.
Everyone in the dining room went quiet for a few seconds after Harris’s outburst, Harnick said. “. . . Then the premier broke the silence in a very calm voice, indicating once the occupiers were able to get into the park, he didn’t believe there was any way they could be removed from the park.”
“ He was quite philosophical, almost reserved,” Harnick continued.
Harnick said he didn’t feel the need to challenge Harris on the phrase “f---ing Indians” because of Harris’ rapid change in demeanour.
After his angry comments, Harris quickly agreed with Harnick to seek an injunction to have the natives removed from the park as quickly as possible, Harnick said.
“ It was all very short — a matter of a few minutes,” he said.
Stoney Point natives occupied the park Sept. 4, 1995, saying they were protecting sacred burial grounds. Their claims were later upheld by documents released by the federal government. A key question at the inquiry has been whether there was inappropriate political interference in the events leading up to George’s death. While politicians can set broad policy, operational decisions are left to police forces. Harnick agreed with Mark Sandler, a lawyer representing the OPP, that there was no suggestion from then Insp. Ron Fox or then Acting Staff Sgt. Scott Patrick that they were receiving instructions from Harris at the meeting.
Harris’ former senior aide, Deb Hutton, who also attended the meeting, testified last week she couldn’t specifically recall anything Harris said on Sept. 4, 5 or 6, 1995, about the Ipperwash occupation.
Things became testy yesterday in exchanges with Murray Klippenstein, a lawyer for the George family, who pressed Harnick for any other comments by Harris.
“ I’ve told you everything that I recall that he said,” Harnick said. “ I don’t have anything to add to it.”
Klippenstein also pressed Harnick on his characterization of the phrase “ f--- ing Indians” as “ inappropriate.”
“ You don’t want to hear the word ‘ inappropriate,’ ” Harnick said. “ I’m going to tell it to you again. It was inappropriate.”
Klippenstein pressed Harnick to explain a memo written by former deputy attorney general Larry Taman on Sept. 6, 1995, that read, “ AG instructed by P that he desires removal within 24 hrs — instruction to seek injunction.”
“ I was never instructed by the premier,” Harnick said, adding he didn’t know if “ AG” applied to “ attorney general.” Taman told the inquiry this month that Harris instructed Harnick on the morning of Sept. 6, 1995, to have the natives removed within 24 hours.
Harnick’s cross-examination is scheduled to continue today.