Science’s ‘dorkiest’ defender
New movie screening at Toronto’s Hot Docs festival shows latest Netflix star debating creationists — to controversial effect
Early in the documentary Bill Nye: Science Guy, which saw its international premiere in Toronto this week at the Hot Docs film festival, Nye laments, “We have this increasing anti-science movement in the United States. It’s worse than ever.”
The film cuts to now-President Donald Trump calling concern about global warming “ridiculous,” then to now-Vice-President Mike Pence minimizing evolution as an unproven theory, then to fundamentalist Christian minister Ken Ham teaching an auditorium full of children the basics of young-Earth creationism, which holds that our planet and humans are just a touch over 4,000 years old.
“We’ve got to fight this fight,” Nye says. “I’ve got to fight this fight.”
Those who dimly remember Nye from the 1990s, when he was the zany, bow-tied host of a kids science television show, may be surprised to learn that Nye is back, and that he has taken a turn for the sharply political: His new Netflix series is called Bill Nye Saves
the World. Nye has made science literacy his fight, and the documentary — which screens again on Thursday and Saturday at the festival — tries to uncover his motivations for doing so.
Maybe most famously, Nye accepted an offer from Ham to travel to Kentucky and defend evolution in a live debate at the Creation Museum, a temple of antiscience built by Ham’s ministry, Answers in Genesis.
After the debate, the ministry built an entire creationist theme park called Ark Encounter, with help from $18 million in state tax incentives — and, some allege, attention and fundraising from the Nye debate.
The 61-year-old Nye sat down with the Toronto Star to talk.
I struggle all the time with whether simply talking about science increases science literacy. If someone reads a story about a new exoplanet and gets excited, or about solar sails, is that person actually more inclined to vaccinate their kids or engage with climate-change policy?
It’s not enough, but it’s required. If we were talking about climate change the way we talk in the U.S. about health care, or the way in Canada you talk about — well, do you talk about the tarsands?
Yeah, we do.
If we were talking about the dangers of not getting vaccinated the way we talk about President Trump’s latest tweet, we would be getting something done. That’s my claim.
I’ve seen research that shows that when you argue with people, both sides get more entrenched. Have you actually looked at research on what changes people’s minds?
Here’s what I think, based on my experience with what I would call skepticism — which you might also call nowadays critical thinking, or what my dad would have called reasoning.
The first time you hear that there’s no connection between hospital emergency room visits and the full moon, people who believe that based on anecdotes go, “Yes there is, I heard that!” But it takes about two years. You have to hear it over and over for about two years before you let go of your old world view. But what we want is to get people trained, to have the habit of mind of thinking critically, so it doesn’t take two years.
Is science the only way of teaching people to think critically?
Philosophy. Science used to be called natural philosophy. Don’t make me draw that line.
I’m a philosophy major who is now a science reporter so . . .
There’s an example! As a mechanical engineer who had to bust my butt — I took three years of calculus and four years of physics — I thought, philosophy majors, they have it so easy. But I’ve completely changed my mind about that.
I now think philosophy is the key to all happiness.
We throw around this term liberal arts education. That’s what we want everyone to have.
And it doesn’t mean everyone has to go to a four-year university, but we want — I want my plumber to be able to think critically, is that so wrong? Whether or not that guy or gal chooses to go to university for four years.
Do you think talking to adults is as effective as talking to kids?
No. Talking to adults is not as effective. No. They’re cooked.
They’re not a lost cause, but it’s not as effective.
No, that’s what concerns me so much about that guy in Kentucky — his influence on children.
I’ve also met Ken Ham. I went to Kentucky to write about creationism and the Ark Encounter. It was a very disorienting experience for me, as
I’m sure it was for you. The documentary features criticism of how you, sitting down with Ken Ham, . . . I blew it! It’s all my fault.
Is there anything about that debate you regret?
The debate? No. And not even really the Ark Encounter. The reason the Ark got built, I do not think was my fault. I think it was that the governor of Kentucky is a creationist. His tourism cabinet are creationists.
I believe, and this is based on what I read, that most people in the U.S. had no idea this guy and his ministry are so out of hand, are so wrong. And the real danger is climate change. He insists to his flock that climate change isn’t happening and the Earth is actually cooling again. That is objectively wrong and, in my opinion, very bad.
The lack of gender and racial diversity in science is a problem —
It’s a feature. It’s a problem everywhere.
As an older white male role model, are you conscious of that?
I’m very conscious of that. I remind us that my mother was recruited by the navy during World War Two because she was good at math and science.
My mom was said to have thrown her bra on the fire (at an) Equal Rights Amendment parade in front of the U.S. Capitol in Washington D.C. My mom was a feminist.
My mom hyphenated her last name, she got a doctorate, she went by “Ms.” until she went by “Doctor.” So I was brought up with all this. But I am the dorkiest white guy you’re ever going to meet. I’m playing the hand I was dealt, man. I’m sorry. I love science, and when you’re in love, you want to tell the world.
As I say all the time, half the people in the world are girls and women, let’s have half the scientists be girls and women.
Your show is called Bill Nye Saves the World, so I’m going to ask you the million-dollar question.
Is that U.S. or Canadian?
U.S., it’s worth much more. It seems like creationism and anti-vaxxers and climate denial are all facets of the same problem. How did we get here, and what can the average reader of my newspaper or a watcher of your show do about it?
As I say, when you’re in love, you want to tell the world. Read the paper. Watch my show. Read books. Turn it up loud. The longest journey begins with a single step. Because we have this problem doesn’t mean we shouldn’t address it, for crying out loud.