Neo-Nazi claims to be soldier in secret chat
Canadian Armed Forces are investigating report of white supremacist ties
OTTAWA— The Canadian Armed Forces has launched an internal probe into suggestions that one of its members belongs to a neo-Nazi extremist group and attempted to join militant white supremacists in the U.S.
In leaked audio recordings obtained by the Southern Poverty Law Center, the unidentified man — who goes by the name “Dakov” — claims to be in combat training with the Canadian Forces while belonging to neoNazi and white supremacist groups. A transcript of the audio, which is included in the centre’s Sounds Like Hate podcast, was shared exclusively with the Star.
“We are certainly concerned by this serious allegation,” wrote Daniel Le Bouthillier, the head of media relations at the Department of National Defence, in a statement to the Star on Wednesday.
“We are reaching out to the (SPLC) so that we can learn more about this individual in hopes of determining whether he is, in fact, a member of the CAF. Should these audio recordings help identify that the individual is CAF, he will be dealt with accordingly.”
Parts of Dakov’s story are questionable — he claims to be on track to take specialized paths within the military despite still being in basic training — but the recording reveals that he is clearly familiar with some of the military’s more esoteric jargon.
And he says he wants to put skills purportedly gained through the Canadian Forces to use for the U.S. white supremacist group The Base — and to learn skills from The Base that he could apply to a Canadianbased neo-Nazi group, Northern Order.
“I know, uh, here in Northern Order, it’s a bunch of guys spread around different cities doing prop runs, that type of s---,” Dakov tells The Base’s leader, Rinaldo Nazzaro, according to a transcript provided by the SPLC of a September 2019 phone call.
“With The Base it’s more so about, uh, sharing skills with people in different parts of the world, people that have seen s---, that have experienced different s---. And I definitely think that, um, it would be good knowledge to bring the skills they would learn from being in The Base, they could apply whilst doing Northern Order activities.”
The Base is active in several countries, including the U.S., Canada, and the United Kingdom. The Soufan Centre, a nonpartisan security research group, has described it as “a small insular organization” that is “intent on accelerating the creation of a white ethno-state by provoking a race war.”
The organization relies on encrypted chat rooms and a vetting process to ensure new recruits’ commitment to its racist goals. The recordings obtained by the SPLC feature Base members repeatedly talking about “operational security”.
Despite the emphasis on security, internal conversations within The Base have leaked out. In addition to the recordings obtained by the SPLC, the FBI was able to monitor its encrypted chats, leading to the arrests in January of four members, including Canadian Patrik Mathews, a former Canadian Forces reserve member who fled the country after the Winnipeg Free Press revealed he was a recruiter for The Base.
Mathews left Canada in August 2019, shortly after the Free Press named him as the person responsible for distributing neo-Nazi propaganda across Winnipeg. In the call with Nazzaro, Dakov suggests he’s familiar with Mathews.
“We’re trying to build trust. We’re trying to build camaraderie, um, but, you know, we also have to constantly remain vigilant, you know what I mean,” Nazzaro tells Dakov.
“Yeah, especially after that f--ing one guy from Winnipeg, like, infiltrated the group and he was in a main chat,” Dakov replies, referring to Free Press reporter Ryan Thorpe.
“I’ve never been public with my affiliations or anything … I’ve heard that the reason (Mathews) got so f---ing was because he told a guy, like, I’m pretty sure he told him his first name and where he works. Like, he’s a member of the CAF.
“And he talked about, like, he was in, like, logistics, reserve force, stuff like that. So, in a way, he basically, like, like, if he never told a guy, like ‘Yeah, I’m with the CAF,’ (Thorpe) never would have been able to find him. Just like keep your mouth shut. That’s what I go by.”
Within the extreme right, a “ghost skin” is the description for adherents who keep their racist and extremist beliefs to themselves while rising in the ranks of law enforcement and the military.
That gets to the heart of the difficulty facing the Canadian Forces in keeping extremists out of its ranks.
If an extremist kept his mouth shut outside encrypted chats and the dark corners of the internet, how would the military identify him as a risk? If he made no moves to act on his racist beliefs, how could it discipline him?
“This is precisely why we have issued orders and instructions to address this challenge to our values and ethics and, importantly, as a message to those who elect not to treat others with respect and dignity,” wrote DND spokesperson Le Bouthillier in a statement to the Star.
Our message is simple and clear: If you perpetuate or condone hateful conduct, you do not belong in the CAF.”
All three branches of the Canadian Forces — the army, navy and air force — have recently issued orders against “hateful conduct.” Although the orders cover all forms of discrimination, reporting over the past few years has repeatedly shown that white supremacy within the ranks is a particular concern.
In an interview with the Star on Thursday, Defence Minister Harjit Sajjan said he was “disgusted” by neo-Nazi and extremist groups attempting to join the CAF for training — but that he knows it has happened, going back to his time as a police officer in British Columbia.
“I knew of times when organized crime groups, other groups like this, wanted to get additional training,” Sajjan said.
“A lot of good work happens within the police and our military police in co-operation on things like this. Because people will be out there, trying to gain experience, but we do have a good system in place trying to weed them out.”
Sajjan offered succinct advice to white supremacists hoping to join the CAF: “We will find you, and you will be dealt with.”
The conversation with Dakov is not the only mention of Canada in the recordings, which the SPLC is releasing in a threepart podcast series.
“If f---ing s--- pops off, Canada’s right there to the north. That’s an unarmed, soft population, man,” one recruit said to Navarro.
“You raid those motherf---ers on sleds, fast and hard, like the Vikings of old, steal their f---ing women and bring ’em back over.”
In recent years, Canadian law enforcement and intelligence agencies have expressed growing concern with extreme-right violence and domestic terrorism, although the Canadian Security Intelligence Service prefers to lump far-right extremism with other forms of “ideologically inspired” acts.
But some of the deadliest attacks in Canada in recent years have had a far-right connection.
“Something is happening with Canadians,” said Barbara Perry, a researcher at Ontario Tech’s Centre on Hate, Bias and Extremism.
Perry pointed to recent research that showed Canadians are among the more active users on extreme right online forums like Fascist Forge.
“Obviously (far-right extremists are) still a relatively small proportion of the population, but there does seem to be a hardening of their resolve.”
If an extremist kept his mouth shut outside encrypted chats, how would the military identify the risk?