Established in 2003, at number 2 Impasse Lebouis in Paris, the Fondation Henri Cartier-Bresson has moved to number 79 Rue des Archives and will inaugurate its new venue—one that is bigger, more central and with a modular exhibition space—on 5 November, with an exhibition devoted to Martine Franck. François Hébel and Agnès Sire, the FHCB’s director and artistic director, respectively, speak about what makes it so unique and outline some new developments. Our January issue will feature a discussion with Florian Ebner and Karolina Ziebinska-Lewandowska from the Centre Pompidou’s Photography Department. ——— I would like to continue our discussion of Parisian photography.
François Hébel Is the Fondation Henri Cartier-Bresson an institution? In the first place, it is private, and next, it operates differently; it is quite independent thanks to the generosity of its founders, Henri CartierBresson, Martine Franck and their daughter Mélanie. Agnès Sire The collection is what makes an institution. The collection at the FHCB is currently the world’s largest in terms of the work of Cartier-Bresson and Martine Franck, and there are very few independent collections as important. We hold 50,000 artworks, as well as letters and numerous books and documents. Is the collection well known? AS Cartier-Bresson did not want to make the foundation a mausoleum for his work. When the foundation opened its doors in 2003 it was possible to undertake archival research thanks to our rich holdings. This research culminated in exhibitions by successive generations of curators, each of whom has offered a different reading of the collection: there have been exhibitions at the BnF in 2003, MoMA in 2010, and at the Centre Pompidou in 2014. This is the only French foundation dedicated to photographers. Did Henri Cartier-Bresson and Martine Franck have any model? AS None. In light of the already existing non-profit artist’s foundations, we advised them, when the foundation was still in the project phase, to be very open, with temporary exhibitions of other artists, in order to continually attract the public. PHOTOGRAPHIC OBJECTS How would you describe the foundation’s artistic policy? AS I have always put on exhibitions that interest me, within the limits of the means available to us. FH Do you think you’ve shown work that Cartier-Bresson would have liked? AS No. FH But you exhibited photographers close to him. AS Perhaps, but it was a convergence of tastes and never a requirement. Indeed, we often showed Cartier-Bresson within the context of such encounters. FH More generally, Agnès has a penchant for what she calls photographic objects, that is to say beautiful prints. She has always made rigorous choices, constrained by the limited space of the original venue but also by her sharp eye, which looks out for the most interesting image from the most perfect set of prints. The foundation has primarily shown 20th-century photographers but there have also been some forays into the 21st century. For example, the Prix HCB is a contemporary affair. AS Fifteen years ago a photograph was still a simple narrative element within a narrative. Prints of the exhibited photographs were based on wall size. What was rather new at that time was to systematically show vintage prints and to explain to viewers what was before them. The press and publishing are also ways photography can exist, as was the case with Cartier-Bresson’s work. Is your ap-
proach similar to his? AS He lost his edge when he began working for the press. He was the first to admit it.The press is a market that imposes a certain discourse; there are conventions that need to be respected in order to seduce readers. Artists should never look to seduce: this should be their moral code. Does the foundation hold the moral rights to the artworks of Cartier-Bresson and Martine Franck? AS Magnum ensures the diffusion of images and requests our permission for any specific use or cropping. FH Cropping, if done well, does not necessarily mean betraying Cartier-Bresson’s work. In fact, he was not against cropping, merely bad cropping. He always said that Alexey Brodovitch, the great art director, was one of the few individuals who knew how to crop an image.That’s why he ended up adding the black border around his images. This was often interpreted as a kind of dictate when it was only a belated form of protection, put in place towards the end of the 1960s. AS Our monitoring role is concerned with copyright but also with the sale of prints. In the past, there have been prints stolen from Magnum, or fakes circulating from time to time. But since the foundation’s establishment, our vigilance has borne fruit. A CHANGE OF SCALE To what extent does this move represent a change of scale for the foundation? FH The small rooms at 2 Impasse Lebouis limited the type of format we could present. But Agnès also played with these limitations by exhibiting small-format work by Jeff Wall for example. The space was also too tight when an exhibition was particularly successful with the public. The new venue will be more comfortable for visitors and will allow us to programme a greater variety of exhibitions. The large exhibition space and its modular hanging system are incredibly flexible. Last but not least, we’re now located in the heart of Paris. On average, how many visitors were there annually? FH Between 50,000 and 100,000 per year but we don’t know how many will come now. We have longer opening hours and plan to show four exhibitions a year instead of three. We have conceived the place to offer a diversity of shows around artists, rather than thematic exhibitions. AS They are something I dream of doing, for different reasons, but thematic exhibitions are more complex in terms of organization. FH We also plan to expand our cultural programming and develop activities for school groups. We’ll move ahead slowly; we need to find the right people and the right fit for each of our initiatives.The foundation’s role is also an international one. We can export our experiences and Parisian shows to other locations, especially China and India, places Cartier-Bresson photographed but countries in which his work has not been shown very much. AS The foundation’s primary objective is to promote and showcase the work of its founders. Cartier-Bresson, before his first exhibition at the Louvre, in 1955, had already exhibited three times in New York, Mexico and London. He was always a citizen of the world. FH But we need to be very clear on what we show or distribute, and we need to support it properly. My role here will be very different to what I was doing at the Rencontres d’Arles where I was concerned with a single territory that required a huge variety of artistic proposals to attract an audience. The inaugural exhibition is devoted to Martine Franck, a rather discreet photographer. AS At Magnum, she suffered from being Cartier-Bresson’s wife. FH There have been exhibitions on Martine’s work in the past that have featured some very good photographs but which haven’t benefitted from the same depth or level of work. Agnès has thoroughly researched the collection and brings this photographer’s career to life. Our upcoming exhibitions will focus on Guy Tillim, 2017 HCB prizewinner, and Wright Morris, via a familiar detour to the United States. Our inaugural programme is very representative. It is still quite classical, focused on historical figures or well-established artists. What place will the foundation give to young photographers? FH People are exhibited too soon. What I mean is that age isn’t important; it’s maturity that counts. The question of youth is not an interesting one.That of the new generations of artists is. We must exhibit them and we will have greater possibility to do so, particularly after the renovation of the basement level. AS Even if few young photographers apply, the Prix HCB is open to all photographers and we plan to produce, along with another institution, the creative work of relatively young authors. FH It’s worth mentioning that, according to Agnès, Cartier-Bresson took his best photographs when he was between 20 and 40 years old. We need to talk to people who today are aged between 20 and 40 instead of impressing them with this overwhelming notion of the master. The ‘archival pearls’ on display in the exhibition spaces will contribute to creating this kind of bridge. They will allow viewers to understand the mindset of someone who aimed to change the viewpoint of the world but remained a young man his entire life. What exactly are these ‘archival pearls’? FH There’ll be several of them in the form of posters. They will change with each exhibition and act as the link with the first floor, where the collection is housed.These pearls bring Cartier-Bresson to life rather than mummifying him. One might wonder why he didn’t do any self-portraits or why the notion of the decisive moment stuck to him, rather unjustly. Our conservation mission is also a curatorial one. COMPETITION What is the foundation’s place in the Parisian landscape? FH It predates many other venues. AS For a while, we were a little removed geographically. While we now have a more central location, the FHCB has always been able to find a place and a public for itself. FH We would like the foundation to be a place of exchange and reflection, a place of authority, one that increases the public’s knowledge of photography. At this moment in time, the public seem to be slightly lacking in reference points. We will offer new ways of looking at photography. That is a rather ambitious programme that echoes the objectives of many other places devoted to photography. Isn’t there a risk of competition? FH Photography is, as it has always been, an enjoyable practice that produces a majority of rather uninteresting things, but at the moment, it is so open that there is plenty of space for a variety of Parisian venues to provide the public with complementary programmes and create, on the contrary, an extraordinary cultural offer. New York, although a pioneering city with very good galleries and MoMA, doesn’t have the equivalent of what is currently happening in Paris. This competition is an opportunity. AS Everyone needs to find their own identity, which doesn’t just exist inside institutional walls. There is a risk of competition in terms of exhibition programming but not in terms of cultural programming. Is this current energy purely institutional? FH It’s not institutions, but rather personalities and character that give Paris and France this singularity in the field of photography.