An economy that does not rely entirely on tourism, and the priorities ahead

– Some cynics may say that the reason you did so well in Western Attica was because of the subsidies the government distributed during the pandemic, the energy crisis etc. The European Commission recently said in a report that this policy needs to stop. Is there concern that people will become disgruntled if the subsidies stop?

I am very proud that we were able to keep society on its feet, to protect jobs and ultimately to support the vulnerable during the pandemic and the energy crisis in a targeted manner. It was not the most popular policy. I assure you that reducing value-added tax and the special consumption tax would have been much more popular. But we decided against this, first because it would not have worked economically and second it would have been socially unjust, as it would benefit everyone and not just the economically vulnerable. So we used the fiscal space at our disposal and were able to support the most vulnerable. And that is something we will continue to do. On the other hand, I have often said that a policy of subsidies is temporary by nature. It is an emergency solution to an emergency problem. The only permanent solution is growth, increasing salaries and improving disposable income.

And since you ask about our fiscal assessment, I believe that we have systematically succeeded in beating fiscal targets for two reasons: First, because the economy is overperforming, growth is higher and therefore so are revenues, but from growth, not overtaxation. Secondly, yes, we still have a lot to do to combat tax evasion, and this has already started being done with electronic payments and better cross-checking. And this gives us more resources to work with.

– Are you at all concerned by the fact that much of the growth we have been seeing is focused on real estate and tourism?

I am not at all sure that this is entirely precise, because if we look at the Greek economic data, we will see, for example, a sizable increase in exports. Exports are not just tourism. Exports are production, the primary sector. I envision a society and an economy that has a broad production base and is not entirely reliant on tourism. I also refer to other services here, such as education and health, where the country can play a leading role.

– But the current account deficit is growing.

And it has gone back down. A large part was energy; that's why it rose. Now it's contracting again because energy prices dropped. And to talk about energy, in an economy where 80% of electricity will be solar, this means less natural gas imports. Add to that the significant contribution of the high-tech sector to the gross domestic product, where very important steps are being made, and you will see that we are talking about an economy that is not dependent only on tourism or real estate, which is another area where we have to introduce a form of growth that is environmentally friendly. I spoke earlier of “stepping on the gas.” This is where I'm stepping on the brakes. There is no way, under my stewardship, that we will destroy sensitive ecosystems like our islands. One of the most important reforms we have passed, “under the radar,” is a local urban planning strategy that is being prepared for every municipal unit in the country. It is a massive reform and it has to do with how we organize space, what we build on it and how we build it. If we see things getting out of hand anywhere, you can rest assured that we will intervene. Just as we intervened in Mykonos and proved that when the state wants to, it is perfectly capable of dealing with lawlessness and delinquency.

– You have associated your personal “brand” with environmental protection. Is this an area where you could say mistakes were made given that one draft law was partially resynched and that the situation on Mykonos had gone unchecked for three years?

An economy emerging from a deep crisis will put growth first. That said, I do not believe that the natural environment has been compromised in any way during our stewardship. Quite the opposite, I would say, as we now have a single agency that is responsible for managing protected areas in a much more reliable manner. As I said, we have also made significant interventions in zoning, which ultimately deal with the biggest wound to Greece's natural environment, which is irregular construction. We passed legislation and closed the loopholes. I came under a tremendous amount of pressure on this matter, but I insisted on our policy line. Many people asked the government for certain specific amendments – it happens, you know, it's part of the democratic process. We did away with many amendments we thought were damaging to the environment. We set specific goals for the protection of our seas and for restricting plastics, we protected mountains from being developed. Can any of these “environmental illuminati” pointing the finger show me one specific thing we did that damaged the environment? Because I can point to 10 things we did to improve it.

– The counterargument is that in places like Mykonos, the situation would have carried on as it was if it were not for the attack on the archaeologist that drew attention to the rackets operating there. For three years, someone was obviously not doing their job.

There is some truth in what you say, sure, but Mykonos was nevertheless in our crosshairs before that happened. But it was the straw that broke the camel's back.

– I would like to turn to the priorities you have in mind for a second term, to the three or four things you would absolutely want to accomplish.

The first priority is the economy, growth with different characteristics. What are these? Growth should reduce inequalities and improve incomes, especially for salaried individuals; it should be friendly to the environment; and it should be digital and should underscore the country's advantages. The second priority is public health. That is a challenge I have taken personally. I think we all became familiar with the National Health System during the pandemic. I learned a lot and I think that I have a very good idea of what needs to be done. I expect to carry out great changes at our hospitals, interventions that have to do with emergency cases, with our doctors, with the hirings that need to be made and the way we staff our medical facilities, especially in remote parts of the country. And these changes must be in primary care, in prevention, in digital healthcare.

– Some things have been accomplished in education and others have been left in limbo, such as the campus police force, which was one of your top commitments. Is there any point to such a security force?

I believe that we need to keep a clear head to assess how we can make our universities safer. The campus police force did not work to the extent that we wanted it to. On the other hand, it is staffed right now with people who can be used and who the students feel are at their service. I have to say that excellent work is being done at many regional universities and the image there is entirely different to that at some big universities. Our universities are building partnerships abroad, developing non-Greek programs and connecting more to the world of research and to industry. We now have industrial PhDs being carried out at our universities; these are significant inroads.

– Why didn't you shut down the university departments that were created by the merger with technical colleges carried out under the previous SYRIZA-led administration?

Because it could not be done. On the other hand, the minimum pass grade for university admission was a very difficult reform and not at all popular. It was essential, though, because I have a responsibility to all the 18-year-olds to prevent them from getting into a department they will most likely never graduate from and for something they weren't even interested in. It also allows universities to assess which departments are competitive so that they can assume the responsibility themselves. I am very proud of what is being done in the area of technical and vocational education, about how many youngsters are choosing public technical colleges over universities so they'll end up with a diploma that is valued in the job market. We all know that there are very good career prospects in specialized fields that do not necessarily require a university degree. This also requires a change of mentality in Greek culture, which is why the minimum pass grade was such an important reform – but also so difficult politically.

`We used the fiscal space at our disposal and were able to support the most vulnerable.

And that is something we will continue to do'

`I think we all became familiar with the National Health System during the pandemic. I learned a lot and I think that I have a very good idea of what needs to be done'

– The justice system remains one of the areas in greatest need of reform.

That is the third reform I was referring to. Steps have been taken, but we need leaps. And when I say leaps, I am not just referring to the ability to give our courts more support or to introduce technology more aggressively, but also to interventions that have to do with the quality and speed of decision-making, with the evaluation of judges. The justice system enjoys complete independence, but we create the operating framework, such as, for example, how the Judges' School operates, how we educate our judges and how we train them from now on.