Understanding the Real Form of the Self, Through the Example of the Mirror

Dadashri has given detailed explanations for this Science in the Gujarati language and He has urged those who want to understand its depth fully, to learn the Gujarati language.

While reading these translations of the Gujarati Dadavani magazine, if you feel there is any sort of contradiction, then it is the mistake of the translators and the understanding of the matter should be clarified with the living Gnani.

In order to enhance the reading experience of the English Dadavani, a glossary with the translations of the Gujarati words used in the matter is available on https://www.dadabhagwan.org/books-media/glossary/ on the internet for readers. Please share your feedback about this change and the overall reading experience of the English Dadavani on engvani@dadabhagwan.org.

Please note that ‘S’ Self denotes the awakened Self, separate from the ‘s’ worldly self or non-Self complex. The Self is the Soul within all living beings. The term pure Soul is used by the Gnani Purush for the awakened Self, after the Gnan Vidhi. The absolute Soul is the fully enlightened Self. The worldly soul is the self. In the same manner, ‘Y’ You refers to the awakened Soul or Self, and the ‘y’ you refers to the worldly self. Also note that round brackets are for translation purposes and square brackets are for clarity that has been added in English which is not originally present in Gujarati.

The Relation of the Self With the Destructible World

Questioner: After realizing the Self, what is the relationship of the Self with the destructible ( vinashi) things of this world?

Dadashri: Have you ever been to see a movie? What relation do you have with the movie? There is a big screen there; so do you have any relation with that screen? What relation do you have with it?

Questioner: Just of seeing.

Dadashri: That is it. Similarly, for this too, all this is only to be Seen. There is no other relation. The Self will go away if You do not See. So, You definitely have to See. There cannot be a Knower ( Gnata) if there is no object to be known ( gneya). The presence of an object to be known suggests the presence of the Knower.

As long as the movie is running, the viewer is of value; otherwise, there is no value of the viewer if the movie is not running.

The Relationship of the Object to Be Known and the Knower

[ The Self is] Continuously the

Knower- Seer ( Gnata- Drashta) by Its inherent nature. The Self, the pure Soul ( Shuddhatma) that ‘we’ gave You, is the continuous Knower ( Gnayak) precisely by Its inherent nature. The moment an object to be known presents itself, the continuous Knower shows Its awakened awareness ( jagruti).

Questioner: Yes, so how should we use it in worldly interaction ( vyavahaar)?

Dadashri: It is indeed there in worldly interaction. Worldly interaction is the object to be known, and the Self ( Nishchay) is the continuous Knower. This is indeed the relation between the two. It is indeed the relationship between worldly interaction and the Self. There is nothing else besides objects to be known in worldly interactions. There is no Knower in worldly interactions, and there is nothing else besides the Knower in the realm of the Self.

Questioner: I understood that very well. So, when five to six activities come together in worldly interaction, that prevalence as the Knower-Seer goes away. Then it comes back again after some time.

Dadashri: No, it does not go away. It is just that it feels that way, but it does not go away.

Questioner: Engrossment tends to happen in the other unnatural ( vibhaav; extra intent of ‘I am Chandubhai’) state.

Dadashri: It does not go away. Say there is a light here. When you fall asleep, you will see darkness within. Just because slight dozing happens, that does not mean the light has gone. The light is the very same, illuminating. So, this worldly interaction is all in the form of an object to be known, and the Self is in the form of a continuous Knower. Now, they have both come into a relationship. The relationship has become that of the object to be known and the Knower ( gneya-Gnata).

Therefore, the ultimate meaning of Knower-Seer is that It Knows and Sees from all aspects, all that is going on within; what the mind, intellect, chit, and ego are doing. That is all. Nothing else.

‘You’ are indeed the Self and You are the Knower-Seer. Whether this happens or that happens, if You let go of the function as the Knower-Seer in the slightest, then problems will arise within. ‘You’ are who You are. This Knowledge ( Gnan) that You have been given, that ‘I am pure Soul,’ that Knowledge should remain exactly that.

The Self Does Not Need Anyone

Questioner: When we say that the pure Soul is only the Knower-Seer, I can understand the point that It is a Seer. However, when we say that the Self is a Knower, then through what medium does the Self acquire Knowledge? The Self would most definitely not be using the prakruti (the non-Self complex) as a medium, would it?

Dadashri: Not only does the Self not make use of anyone, but It also does not seek anyone’s help. The Self is independent. The Self is the absolute Self ( Parmatma). ‘It’ has Its own infinite energy. The Self does not have to acquire Knowledge from anyone else. The One whose body itself is Knowledge, It is in fact the embodiment of Knowledge ( Gnan swaroop), the form of Science ( Vignan Swaroop), then where does the question of acquiring Knowledge through someone even remain?

Questioner: As a Seer ( Drashta), ‘I’ am Seeing the prakruti, that is fine; but when ‘I’ become the Knower ( Gnata) of it, at that time it is only through some medium of the prakruti, through any thoughts or through any of its attributes that it comes into My Knowing. Otherwise, how would ‘I’ come into the function of Knowing ( jaanpanu)?

Dadashri: No, the Self, by Its inherent nature, has the function of Knowing. The knowledge that the prakruti gets, the knowledge which arises in the prakruti, has been ‘implanted’ ( aaropan) through the Self. It is only when the Self’s function of Knowing gets implanted in the prakruti that the function of knowing arises in the prakruti. The intellect is simply an implantation [of the light] of the Self; nothing else. So, besides the Self, there is no other place at all where the function of Knowing exists. It is

only here [in the Self], that the entire function of Knowing has arisen. These two properties of Knowing and Seeing are properties of only the Self. Besides the Self, there is no other place where [the property of] Knowing and Seeing exists, and whatever the prakruti knows, it is due to the implantation from the Self. There is nothing else. The function of Knowing does not exist in the prakruti whatsoever!

Questioner: What does that mean? That One should not do any implantation?

Dadashri: To say, “Not to do,” that language itself is wrong.

Questioner: So then how am ‘I’ to remain as the Knower-Seer? How can ‘I’ remain as the Knower-Seer directly, without any medium of the prakruti or without taking any support from anything?

Dadashri: The Self’s inherent nature itself is that of the Knower-Seer. Let me explain that to you. You have understood the Knower-Seer in your own language [interpretation].

Questioner: Dada, when we say, “The Self is the Knower-Seer,” that is fine. Now, if the Self is the Knower-Seer, then does It become the Knower-Seer with the help of the subtle body?

Dadashri: No. Say there is a mirror which is standing here. If you go in front of it, then would you see yourself in the mirror or would you not? Does the mirror have to ‘do’ anything in that? That is how all of this is reflected in the Self. A physical mirror is achetan (inanimate; without the property to Know and See) whereas the Self is Chetan (the eternal element with the function of

Knowing and Seeing). Everything reveals itself within the Self. So then, One Knows, ‘What happened within, who is visible in it.’ That is how the Knower-Seer is. The ultimate Knower-Seer is like this.

All That Is to Be Known Are Gneya

After the Self has separated, It is considered as the Knower ( Gnata) and all temporary things that are seen are objects to be known ( gneya). For the One who can See everything, what is destructible ( vinashi) can also be seen externally and what is indestructible ( avinashi) can also be Seen within. There are many gneya within, but people outside [those who have not attained Gnan] only understand as far as knowledge attained through the medium of the senses is concerned. They understand that which concerns the mind, the eyes, and the intellect. They do not understand what is beyond that.

Questioner: What should we understand gneya to be?

Dadashri: Gneya refers to objects to be known. Things that are to be known are all called gneya, and all the things to be seen are called drashya. What is the inherent nature of the Self? It is to Know and to See. But what does It Know? ‘It’ Knows the objects to be known. Whenever an object to be known is present, it is immediately Known by It. Just as when a person goes in front of a mirror, a reflection gets cast inside, similarly, it becomes present in this [the Self].

If the mirror were alive, then everything would be seen as an object to be known inside it.

Questioner: Yes, it would see everything as an object to be known.

Dadashri: Similarly, the Self Itself Sees [ everything] as an object to be known. The only difference is that this [the mirror] is not living, whereas This [the Self] is living.

Questioner: This is Chetan and that is jada (inanimate matter; without the Knower-Seer; achetan), that is all.

Dadashri: Just as its circumstances reflect in it [the mirror], similarly, the circumstances reflect within [the Self]; they are not visible externally.

Questioner: Yes, the mirror indeed has darshan (vision), but it does not have knowledge. It has one attribute [in common] which is that it has darshan, isn’t it!

Dadashri: What do you mean by darshan?

Questioner: It is not able to do it by itself.

Dadashri: No, darshan means ‘I am this’ ( pratiti). That sense of ‘I am this’ is not present. It is not living, is it! Without being alive, there is no darshan, there is no pratiti. However, this is just an example. And look, we can all be seen, can’t we! Does it have anything to with us? However many people come and stand in front of it, they are all visible.

Questioner: It is indeed vitaraag (free of attachment and abhorrence).

Dadashri: It is indeed vitaraag; similarly, the Self keeps on Seeing and Knowing the circumstances.

Things Reflect in the Self Like in a Mirror

Questioner: You said that a mirror is one of the greatest tools to understand the Self, please explain that.

Dadashri: The mirror is a great science. If you want to give a physical description of the Self, then the mirror alone is a means! So, the Self is like a mirror. Just like a mirror, Its inherent nature is such that the entire universe is continuously visible within It, it reflects within It. All that is on the outside, all of it gets reflected within. Therefore, the realization immediately takes place as to, ‘What just happened!’ So, It continues Seeing and Knowing everything that is going on in this world.

So, like a mirror, everything is reflected within Itself. ‘It’ does not have to look outside. In fact, Its ‘eyes’ and all that, the entire ‘body’ [substance of an element; dravya] is such that it gets reflected within Itself. Therefore, everything we do is indeed reflected inside It, in the Self, in Oneself.

It is not necessary to go see outside. If it were necessary to go see outside, then one would have to hoist himself up like this. One would have to hoist himself up like this in order to see America. But instead, everything reflects within Oneself. Would all these people sitting here reflect in a mirror or not?

Questioner: Yes, they would be reflected.

Dadashri: Similarly, the Self is like a mirror, but the mirror is jada (devoid

of the Knower-Seer), whereas the Self is Chetan (the Knower-Seer).

Like a Mirror, the Objects to be Known Reflect Within

Questioner: In the hymn Sarvasma Amaaru Arpan Chhe ( We Surrender Everything of Ours to You), there is [the verse], ‘ Jeevan bhale ek darshan ho, pan Aatam shaashwat darpan chhe.’ (‘Life may be seen solely through the five senses, but the Self is an eternal mirror.’) So what is meant by darpan?

Dadashri: Yes, darpan ( mirror) means the entire world can be seen in it, everything is reflected within. So then, It does not need to make an effort to See. For example, does a mirror have to make any effort to see anything? Similarly, everything is reflected in It, so It is a type of mirror. Then, at certain stages, the meaning keeps getting deeper, but It ultimately remains [in a state like that of] a mirror.

Without the mirror having a desire, everything can be seen in the mirror. Does it have any desire? If the mirror were living, then it would keep on telling everyone, “Look how I can see everything within myself! All of you are standing outside, but I can see [you] within myself.”

However, there is no Chetan in the mirror, so it does not say, “I can see this”; whereas This is Chetan, so It says, “I can see this.” So then what people think is, ‘It must be looking outside’; however, it is not seen outside, everything is actually reflected within It.

If the mirror were living, then it would be able to see within; so then would the need for it to look outside remain? Everything is reflected within the Self. The entire world can be Seen within the Self. So that is what needs to be Seen, It does not need to See anything outside.

It Reflects Within Through the Knowledge That Is Beyond the Senses

Questioner: My Atma (the Self) is in this body, and all of this is to be Known, so does my Atma wander everywhere? Just as in Siddha Kshetra (the permanent abode of the absolutely liberated Souls who have attained ultimate liberation), the entire universe is to be Known, so does my Atma wander everywhere?

Dadashri: No, It does not wander, it is reflected within It. There is no need to wander; it is reflected within.

Questioner: It is reflected; is it the Knowledge that is beyond the senses ( atindriya Gnan) of my Self that is reflected?

Dadashri: Yes, just as a mirror remains in its place and however many people come in front of it, they all get reflected within it.

Questioner: If they are reflected, then is that reflection in my Knowledge that is beyond the senses?

Dadashri: Yes, it is indeed in the Gnan.

Questioner: Now, wherever there is Gnan, the Self is certainly present.

Dadashri: The Self indeed exists wherever there is Gnan, and the Self does

not exist where there is no Gnan. The Self is not present in these inanimate things.

Questioner: That is correct. However many objects to be known ( gneya) I See; meaning the gneya are Seen through Gnan, so when I See gneya that are far away, my Self does not go there, but rather, they are reflected within.

Dadashri: There is no need to go anywhere. ‘They’ [the absolutely liberated Souls] sit over there in Siddha Kshetra, and when I raise my hand, that is all reflected in Their Gnan over there. It gets reflected within, They do not have to go and See it, They do not have to apply awareness as the Self ( upayog) there. If They set out to apply awareness there, then effort is involved. We are the ones who have to apply awareness as the Self. This is because we had misused it. Since we had misused it, we have to come into shuddha upayog (pure applied awareness as the Self). However, for Them, there is no shuddha upayog or anything else that remains, is there!

Up Until Keval Gnan, It Is the Knower and Seer, Thereafter It Is a Mirror

So, the Self does not have the energy to See externally. We do say [use the terms] Knower-Seer through a certain perspective, however, It only Sees what is reflected within Itself.

Questioner: So when we say Knower-Seer, is it not Knowing and Seeing externally?

Dadashri: No, the Knower and Seer does not mean seeing through the eyes. It is reflected within. Is it as though any activity needs to be done as far as the Knower-Seer is concerned? It reflects. The Knower-Seer is the first stage, and the final stage is this; after becoming free from the [final] body, It becomes a mirror ( darpan). As long as this body exists, It is the Knower-Seer.

Questioner: Please explain that more.

Dadashri: It’s like this; It is involved in the activity of Seeing, yet this activity of Seeing should be natural and spontaneous ( sahaj). Since It has to ‘do’ the activity of Seeing, It has to [‘do’ the subtle effort to] remain as the KnowerSeer, so there is a Knower even over It. So then, It has become a manager. But there is still a ‘boss’ over It. The ultimate ‘boss’ does not have to make the effort to See, It is indeed able to See naturally and spontaneously.

Questioner: So who is It that has to See as the Knower-Seer, and who is It that Sees even It?

Dadashri: The original [Self] Sees even It, that is the original [Self]. That which has to See is the middle One; the upayog (applied awareness as the Self). So the Knower ( Jaananaaro) of even that [the middle One] is in the ultimate state.

Questioner: Who is that ‘middle One’, Dada?

Dadashri: Applied awareness.

Questioner: It is applied awareness, but whose applied awareness is it?

Dadashri: It is of Pragnya ( the direct liberating light of the Self). Once

One comes into the applied awareness of Pragnya, that is more than enough. There is not much need for any of us to go beyond this, our college is up to this point!

Questioner: So that which can be Seen through keval Gnan (absolute Knowledge), can that be equated with a mirror?

Dadashri: Yes, It Sees everything in keval Gnan within. Inside, everything is reflected in Its Gnan, just like everything is reflected in a mirror. However many people are sitting here, they reflect in it; all those people who are sitting out there. However, that ‘mirror’ does not see externally. ‘It’ Sees whatever is reflected within itself.

Everything Is Reflected in Absolute Knowledge

The fact of the matter is, everything can be Seen in absolute Knowledge ( keval Gnan). Absolute Knowledge is such a Knowledge that nothing to be Seen in It is left out. However many objects to be known there are, they are all Seen. All the objects to be seen ( drashya) are also Seen. So what we have seen may be false, but this is not false.

Questioner: Does that happen by making an effort? That which is Seen through absolute Knowledge, ‘Seen’ is just a word, but how does that happen, Dada?

Dadashri: Suppose there is a mirror, if this mirror were living, it would tell me, “I see all these things.” Then I would ask, “Where are you looking? Here [externally]?” To that, it would reply, “No, within me.” In the same way, absolute Knowledge Sees everything within.

Compared to whatever truth there is outside [in the world], this is a distinct truth, all this discussion. This distinct truth is without the slightest mistake.

People have not been to America, you have not been to America either, yet you still have to believe that [it exists], don’t you?

Questioner: Yes.

Dadashri: This is all just like that.

Questioner: No, no, I believe it. I completely believe it, Dada.

Dadashri: That is fine. That you believe it is all fine. However, this has been Seen through absolute Knowledge. What you are trying to know about how it must have been Seen, well it has been Seen through absolute Knowledge. I cannot See that. I have only one thing; there is a body that leaves from here, from ‘our’ shoulder. When ‘we’ want to know something… when ‘we’ get confused, that body goes out and goes [to Simandhar Swami] and comes back with some light as to what it is.

Questioner: At that time, what happens to this body?

Dadashri: Nothing, this body remains as it is. Another body in the form of light leaves from here [the shoulder], it is absolutely tiny. It goes there and comes back with an explanation when ‘we’ get confused. And that too, within a minute. It does not even take long. This is because no other link has been joined. Now only this much is joined from here.