Oh my goodness!
FF’s Foley and FG’s MacNeill in tetchy exchange over sex education in schools
‘You have clear guidelines of dates’
EDUCATION Minister Norma Foley has been accused of speaking to Fine Gael TD Jennifer Carroll MacNeill during a tetchy Oireachtas Committee debate as if ‘she is in a classroom’.
It comes amid anger in Fine Gael quarters over Ms Foley’s progress on relationships and sexual education (RSE) in schools.
Ms Foley took issue with being asked to clarify one of her responses by Ms MacNeill, telling her if an answer ‘is correct the first time, it will be correct the second and the third time’.
The minister was addressing the Oireachtas Gender Equality Committee yesterday morning in relation to recommendations of the Citizens Assembly on Gender Equality regarding Norms and Stereotypes and Education.
During the meeting, Ms Carroll MacNeill asked for clarity on an answer Ms Foley had given to People Before Profit’s Bríd Smith on whether ‘every child in Ireland will get the same technical sexual education as each other, with no opt-outs for parents or schools’.
‘What I have laid down in the curriculum will be followed,’ Ms Foley responded.
Ms Carroll MacNeill remarked that the same answer was being given again and she ‘asked a simple yes [or no] question’.
‘I would just say to you, Deputy, if the answer is correct the first time and if the information I give you is correct the first time, it will be correct the second and the third time when you ask it as well irrespective of how you frame it,’ Ms Foley responded.
Ms Carroll MacNeill responded by saying ‘Oh my goodness’.
She later said when she first asked the minister a question about RSE in schools in July 2020 she was given a ‘general response’. She explained: ‘I was happy enough at the time because there had to be follow-up.
‘When I read your opening statement, I see the same general information or the general standard of information that I’ve received all the way through. You say nobody has been more challenged about this than you, but I haven’t seen any output in relation to this.’
The Dún Laoghaire TD also stated that no dates had been provided for updates to the Junior or Senior Cycle RSE programmes.
However, Ms Foley stated that the implementation for Junior Cycle will be 2023 but that a consultation programme will need to be carried out with ‘an intention, if at all possible, for implementation for 2024’.
She further stated: ‘You have clear guidelines of dates.’
The Irish Daily Mail understands that there was shock in the Fine Gael camp at the manner in which the minister spoke to her coalition partner.
‘Her tone was incredible,’ one source said. ‘[Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael] are partners in Government. Why did [Minister Foley] have to speak to her like that?’
Another said Ms Foley spoke to Ms Carroll MacNeill ‘like she is in the classroom’.
One Fine Gael source remarked that the exchange between the minister and the Fine Gael TD came just a week after Ms Carroll MacNeill gave a victim impact statement during the sentence hearing of a man accused of sending her sexually explicit videos and messages in 2020.
Gerard Culhane, 43, of Marian Place, Glin, Co. Limerick, pleaded guilty at Dublin Circuit Criminal Court to harassing the TD between January 13, 2020, and March 26, 2020.
‘This time last week, she was in all the papers for having received [these messages] and that’s the response she got from the minister?’ the source remarked.
However, Fianna Fáil insiders insisted last night that the information given to Ms Carroll MacNeill had previously been given to her in parliamentary question responses. An answer from December
‘That’s the response she got?’
2021 shows Ms Foley told the TD that ‘it is planned the new specification will be rolled out to all schools from September 2023’.
‘The redevelopment of the Junior Cycle SPHE and RSE curriculum materials will be followed by the redevelopment of the Senior Cycle and Primary curriculums,’ she added.