Souness: You have to be real and honest

Liverpool icon vows to continue being direct with his views despite the changing landscape of punditry,

As Graeme Souness sits back on his sofa, the conversation turns to whether you need to have won a European Cup to be a good pundit. “Anyone can get lucky once,” he jokes. He is reminded that it was more than once, though, it was three times in his own career. “Beyond that it’s not luck.”

Those victories at Wembley, Parc des Princes and Stadio Olimpico, plus five league titles, put Souness in a position of authority when it comes to football broadcasting. However, his 15 years at Sky Sports was defined by what was said, rather than his trophy haul and illustrious playing career.

In his view, it is getting harder to be a pundit in modern football. To use the right words while still being honest and critical when it is required. At 70, Souness has not taken a backwards step in that regard. He was back on screen for ITV’s coverage of Manchester United’s dramatic FA Cup win against Liverpool before the international break, and he will be at the Euros for Scotland’s opener against hosts Germany.

“Iwillneverretire,”saidSouness.“Iwill be retired when the phone stops ringing.”

And in Souness’ mind, there is one key driver behind his longevity. “Be honest,” he says. “I know we have to be very careful with what words we choose now, but to be as honest as you possibly can, consistently. And just be real. That is becoming more and more difficult for the guys who are doing it now.”

But, despite his own successes as a player and pundit, Souness does not buy into the theory that you must have achieved it all to analyse the very best.

“That is like saying Arsene Wenger or Jose Mourinho shouldn’t have been great managers,” he points out. “Winning a European Cup doesn’t qualify you to be good at anything.

“There are people I will listen to. There are people I think ‘no, you have nothing I’m going to learn from you at all’. That is only me. When you watch people on the telly I’m sure you’re exactly the same. I’m no different. There are people I will listen to and people I won’t listen to.”

It has been 10 months since he was last on Super Sunday, wearing an immaculate suit and telling viewers his opinions, regardless of whether they were opposed to his colleagues. Souness says it felt great to be back with ITV last week, not that he has been waiting by the phone for a callup. His radio work, a podcast and charity work have kept him even busier than when he was with Sky Sports.

There has been no time to reflect on being at the centre of the Premier League going stratospheric during his stint as a broadcaster. His schedule is too hectic for that, but he is happy to confirm there are no regrets over anything said on air over the last two decades.

Criticism

Arsenal came in for plenty of criticism down the years, with his “team of son-inlaws” assessment particularly damning. His frustration with Paul Pogba will be remembered too. It was borne out of seeing a player with attributes who was not applying himself to winning matches.

But Souness takes no joy from the France midfielder’s woes, that include a ban for doping offences less than two years after leaving Manchester United without helping them mount a title challenge.

“With Pogba, I was frustrated with him because I saw someone who had all that talent, all that physical prowess that you see in a magnificent athlete, but had a stinking attitude,” said Souness.

“I could talk now for 10 minutes on it but the bottom line is, he didn’t work hard enough. The worst thing that could have happened to him was winning the World Cup as a young man. That put him firmly in a great big comfy armchair. He was no longer up for doing the hard yards, he thought it was all about him doing clever, eye-catching things on the football pitch.

“Every time I played I had one thought in my head: I’m going to be better than the guy I’m playing against. I’m going to have a better day than he does. And the starting point for that is working harder than him. I don’t think Paul Pogba ever had that attitude. It was all about showing how clever and cute I can be. It would have been very easy to play against him because he never worked on you. He didn’t stop you playing.

“I take no pleasure in what has happenedto him because he was an extremely talented young man who had everything to be remembered as one of the great midfield players in world football. But he won’t be remembered for that unfortunately. He will be remembered for being banned for drugs and being a near-miss.”

Souness still rides the highs and lows of the game, kicking every ball and feeling every tackle as if he was still playing.

“I’m not one for looking back. I’m 70 but I wake up some mornings thinking I’m 21 again,” he said. ”My wife will wake me up in the middle of the night and say ‘stop kicking me’ because I’m dreaming I’m still playing football.”

The reason Souness is speaking so openly about his TV career is that he is

heavily involved in a campaign by the UK’s NHS to tackle high blood pressure. He was diagnosed at 38 with hypertension, which contributed to him having openheart surgery. Souness is as passionate about the campaign as he is about football, reeling off the stats: the estimation is that 4.2 million in England are undiagnosed, in Ireland it is believed to be close to one million people.

“Is there anyone better than me to talk about it? I don’t know,” he said. “When I was manager at Liverpool I was doing everything the players were doing in training except playing on a Saturday. You can feel great but it is a slow burner and the sooner you address it when you get to 40, you have to get on top of it.”

You would think the stresses of live TV would not suit his condition, but Souness points out the condition is easily treatable with a daily pill. Not that his blood pressure was elevated when on air, as it all felt natural. Management was a different animal.

Pressure

“I don’t feel my blood pressure would change very much from being on air and not being on air. But I guarantee it would change when I was a manager on matchdays,” he said. “If you are a pundit, the last thing people want is people agreeing all the time. I never said anything without being able to back it up. It wasn’t just to grab a daft headline. I would like to think I could always back it up by explaining why I said that. There’s nothing, no. I can’t think of anything where I thought, ‘I wish I hadn’t said that’.”

Modern-day football still gets Souness excited, but there is plenty to dislike, too. And when he does not like what he sees, he will continue to say so.

“Some games are sensational. But it’s a 50-50 thing. Some games I’ll settle down to watch and I see midfield players passing it square all the time. It does nothing for me and I’ll turn over and watch something else. Other games just grab me and I’m glued to it.”

Watching football with a critical eye is just part of being Graeme Souness. (© Telegraph Media Group Ltd, 2024)

Brian Kerr says he will play no role in a future Ireland management team after his involvement as part of the backroom staff of interim boss John O’Shea ended on Tuesday night.

But while Irish fans await the arrival of a permanent successor to Stephen Kenny, with an appointment now expected in the second week of April, Kerr (right) has distanced himself from the position taken by Ireland defender Dara O’Shea that the new boss should be “somebody who understands Irish football and who knows what it is”.

Former Ireland manager Kerr will now revert to his roles in TV and radio punditry as he’s confirmed he has no plans to seek a place on the staff of the next manager.

“I was asked to help out for two matches and that’s finished. As far as I’m concerned, I’m finished,” he said.

“I haven’t been asked to do anything else. I’ve enjoyed that time. I don’t know whether I would want to do any more. I have commitments to the media, which I have broken over the last few weeks.

“Both Virgin and Off The Ball have been very co-operative in allowing the time out to do this, but I don’t have any problem going back to do that again.

Interesting

“I found this really interesting, intensive, demanding and I don’t know how important my contribution was. The initial question I asked John [O’Shea] was, ‘Why do you think you need me, can you not do it yourself?’ I said the same thing to Jonathan Hill, and having looked at him over the last few days and looked at the staff working, I don’t think there is a great necessity for me.”

Some figures within the FAI believe that the Ireland manager should be Irish, a theory Dara O’Shea appeared to back in his pre-match comments before the Switzerland game.

But Kerr, who managed the national team of the Faroe Islands as a foreigner, was keen to keep the door open.

“When I went to the Faroes, it was a massive honour to trust someone with a national team, I always think that,” says Kerr, aware that of the four managers who took Ireland to a major finals, two (Jack Charlton and Giovanni Trapattoni) were non-nationals.

“Previous managers of Ireland who weren’t from Ireland have done very well. You don’t need to name them.

“So if the association decides to go that way, the players will get along with it and the country will get along with it and it will be up to him to devise a way of playing that helps us get the results that everyone wants to see us get and give us a hope of qualifying for tournaments again.

“Dara is a very bright and intelligent lad and I thought he was exceptional in both games.

“I was fierce impressed with him, but it doesn’t mean he is right in terms of advising the association as to what the right thing to do is.

“I think he is entitled to say that, and maybe there was a bit of emotion sitting beside John, and he mentioned John was one of his heroes as a young lad.

“Maybe it was a natural thing to say, but I don’t really know what’s happening.”

The last week was Kerr’s first time to be involved with the FAI at any level since he was sacked as senior team manager in 2005.

While the manner of his departure from the FAI, where he had been on staff since 1997 and had also worked on Liam Tuohy’s coaching staff at youth level in the 1980s, did hurt, he admitted that this spell gave him closure “to a degree”.

Kerr said: “The way I finished wasn’t very nice. It wasn’t very nice to get a letter in the post after working for them for eight or nine years.

“You get a letter in the post saying they decided not to renew your contract and would you send us the money you owe us for tickets and give us back the computer and the car and phones and any paperwork you have belonging for us.

“It lacked class and it disappointed me at the time because I done my bit. I done it as a volunteer with Liam Tuohy in the ’80s as well. It was just poor.

“But anyway, I have enjoyed this period and I’m grateful for the opportunity to work with the international team again and working with those players. They’re a lovely group of lads.

“They made me feel very welcome and they were very open to any bits of advice I had to give them. I’ve really enjoyed their company.

“Irish people can be proud of them. Their parents and their clubs; they really are a very impressive group of lads.”