‘Presenters want to own their brands. Why should RTÉ have their foot on people’s necks?’

As Jennifer Zamparelli joins the 2 Johnnies and Doireann Garrihy in quitting 2FM, Kim Bielenberg and Kirsty Blake Knox find out why the national broadncdaster no longer represents the summit for young talent

There was surprise but little shock among fellow broadcasters when RTÉ confirmed that the 2 Johnnies were giving up their drivetime 2FM show at the end of the month. The Tipperary comedy duo — known as Johnny B and Johnny Smacks — had become the most popular presenters on the station, with over 150,000 listeners a day.

As the kings of rural banter might put it: “We’re out the gap!”

The announcement of their departure came only a fortnight after another popular presenter Doireann Garrihy quit as co-presenter of 2FM’s breakfast show, and speculation mounted through the week that another popular presenter might also step down.

Then RTÉ dropped another bombshell, confirming on Thursday that Zamparelli would indeed hang up her mic after an extended period of leave. She occupied the important 9am to noon slot, once the home of the station’s most popular presenter, Gerry Ryan.

Zamparelli, the 2 Johnnies and Garrihy have been all been key figures in a revamped station that has fought tooth and nail to hold on to young listeners — with some success.

Since they joined RTÉ two years ago, the 2 Johnnies have been earning a decent income. Between their RTÉ salaries and other commercial interests, the latest accounts for their production company Big Ball Small Ball show they received remuneration of €404,200 last year.

Zamparelli made it clear that she was leaving to spend more time with her children, Florence and Enzo.

But why have the 2 Johnnies decided that a more promising future lies outside RTÉ, once the be-all and end-all of broadcasting in Ireland, where presenters continued for decades on generous salaries, and why are they being joined at the exit door by Garrihy?

Keith Walsh, a former 2 FM breakfast show presenter, has a simple explanation for the departure of the Tipp duo and Garrihy: “The people who have gone will make more money off 2FM than on 2FM,” he says. “They have their own brands and in fairness, their brands are now bigger than 2FM. They have a bigger audience and the potential to make more money.”

It’s also a matter of freedom and control. The exodus is happening in a more restrictive environment in RTÉ, where the director general Kevin Bakhurst is cutting salaries, and there are tighter rules on outside commercial interests such as brand promotions. The payments scandal that erupted last year is having an effect.

Critics might find their brand of humour as funny as a trip to the dentist, but the 2 Johnnies’ strength and earning potential is based on the fact that they had already become big names in podcasting before they were signed by RTÉ in 2022. So they can take Montrose or leave it, and prosper either way.

Their podcast, which is separate from their radio output, regularly features at number one in the Irish charts, with a mix of jokes, banter, songs and the sort of stories of sexual misadventures that would never be allowed on most radio stations.

INDEPENDENT BRAND

Before they became full-time entertainers, Johnny McMahon was a butcher and Johnny O’Brien a hurl maker. They play for the same GAA club.

They may be leaving RTÉ next Friday, but they still have a hectic schedule over the next few months.

On the day their departure was announced, they were not slow to use their programme to promote their next big live show, which will be at St Anne’s Park in Dublin on June 8 in front of a crowd of 20,000.

On the day of their exit, they release an album, Small Town Heroes, including such undoubted hits as Jays I’d Murder a Pint,

Deli Girl and Mad for Mickey.

Next month, they embark on a tour of North America and Australia.

As well as earning revenue from their live shows, they sell advertising on their podcast and they have a range of merchandise including 2 Johnnies caps, hoodies, mugs, books and customised Tipperary shirts.

Irene McCormick, a former RTÉ producer who lectures in media at South East Technological University, says their departure shows how the broadcasting environment has changed dramatically.

RTÉ is no longer the endgame for a new generation of presenters, and a growing number of talented people are happy to bypass the national broadcaster, or move on quickly when it no longer suits their aspirations.

“RTÉ didn’t make the [2 Johnnies’] careers,” says McCormick, who has devised a degree in social media influencing at her university.

“They made their name online and already had a lucrative career touring and presenting their podcast. In the past, somebody would go to RTÉ and [the station] would make their career. Now RTÉ have to go online to look for talent, but these talented people have careers elsewhere with a different type of audience.

“Now the 2 Johnnies are returning to their online audience and it’s edgier, which is more of their thing.”

A key attraction of being independent of the state broadcaster, says McCormick, is that presenters have control over their own destiny and their content.

“They won’t have a paymaster or a boss with that much control over their lives,” she says. “They won’t have to go cap in hand, and ask, ‘Can I do this gig or that gig?’.

“If you work online, you are effectively the CEO of a small media company. You make your own decisions, and you have power and authority over your own licences and brands.

“It’s democratisation that people can have ownership of their own brands. Why should RTÉ have their foot on people’s necks?”

McCormick says there is still a prestige attached to RTÉ, particularly in sport and current affairs, but it is on the wane.

‘You are in total control of your own destiny, and that is the opposite of what happens in traditional radio. I love having full editorial control’

The lecturer, who worked as an RTÉ producer and director for nine years, believes it was a mistake to introduce a rule that no presenter could earn more than the director general.

She said you could find a thousand people to run RTÉ, but not that many you could put in front of a microphone who would be creative and present shows with chutzpah.

Keith Walsh says up-and-coming producers, ideas people and content creators are not going to the national broadcaster any more, because it has less to offer. Instead, they would prefer to do their own podcasts.

Blind boy Boat club made his name on RTÉ as part of the Rubberbandits, but now makes his living as a podcaster and by charging punters to attend his gigs.

Several heads would have been turned by the recently published accounts of Vogue Williams, co-presenter with Joanne McNally of the podcast My Therapist Ghosted Me.

Her media company’s profits surged to €1.32m for the year, an income beyond the dreams of an RTÉ lifer. Williams’ and McNally’s show sold out big arenas across Ireland and the UK. They hosted four consecutive shows at the 3Arena in Dublin, the sort of feat only achieved by bands such as U2 and Westlife.

well as live shows, Williams can make substantial income through endorsements on her Instagram account. A survey by the podcast company Fountain showed that the presenter has a total of 1 million followers and can earn up to €2,862.64 per post.

Garrihy may not be as big as Williams, but McCormick says there is huge money to be made for women like her in areas such as beauty and fashion.

“I imagine she can do very well and enjoy the power you have making decisions for yourself,” says McCormick.

Lynn Hunter is the founder of the Collaborations Agency, with 120 content creators on her books. They include podcasters and social media influencers. Her clients include podcasters Kevin Twomey and PJ Kirby from I’m Grand Mam, Jess Redden and the comedian Shane Daniel Byrne.

She says the media landscape has radically changed in recent years, and that there are more avenues open to content creators.

“The world is changing and people consume media in a lot of different ways,” she says. “As an agency, we host our own events in Vicar Street and the Olympia, and we are producing podcasts.

“There are lots of different avenues, and podcasts build a huge following. If you look at Joanne and Vogue, they are selling out the 3Arena. So there is a massive revenue to be made from it.

“Traditional media is not the only route for these guys… I am not bashing traditional media. I think it is hugely important, especially radio… but it is not the only medium people are looking at.”

There is also a greater editorial freedom when individuals front their own podcasts. But Hunter adds: “You have to be smart about it as well. There is the ASAI [Advertising Standards Authority of Ireland] and rules and regulations. It’s not a free-for-all.”

RTÉ does have some rules that don’t apply to free agents, however. This year it introduced a new register of interests requiring certain staff and contractors to disclose any business interests they might have.

It also launched a new register of gifts, which will require employees and contractors to declare any gifts they receive that are above a value of €50. Any gift valued at over €100 should not be accepted or if it must be accepted, it has to be declared and becomes the property of RTÉ.

Having been dropped from the 2FM schedule three years ago, Louise McSharry says she can understand why presenters can now see that there is life beyond RTÉ.

“The industry has changed massively, because people have several pots on the boil. Most [presenters] tend to have commercial interests outside a radio gig,” she says.

“RTÉ is tightening things up when it comes to commercial interests. That could potentially be a consideration of high-profile people. They could make a lot of money outside the national broadcaster.”

GREAT CAREER

McSharry, who presents her own podcast, Catch Up, says: “You don’t need a radio station to do something in broadcasting any more. You can do it yourself and make a great career out of it.”

The presenter enjoys the freedom of her own podcast. “You are in total control of your own destiny, and that is the opposite of what happens in traditional radio. I love having full editorial control over my own content.

“Not every podcast makes money, but I can make a living doing it. Those who have a radio audience can transfer it relatively easily, but it’s a lot of work.”

Willie O’Reilly, former RTÉ group commercial director and Today FM boss, says the media landscape has changed and broadcasters no longer think of a job in RTÉ as a ‘career for life’.

“[For a younger generation] being in RTÉ is great, you get your pay cheque. But there is other stuff to be doing. I think we have arrived at that time,” he says.

“They are happy to do it for a certain number of years but then there are other opportunities.”

There has been change in the 2FM schedule in recent years, with departures such as Colm Hayes, Nicky Byrne and McSharry, but rarely have four big names announced they are leaving within such quick succession.

These departures could leave 2FM facing challenges.

“They face a number of hurdles,” O’Reilly says. “The first is that they [the broadcasters leaving] go and take whatever loyalty is with them. The second is that they may go to the opposition, and bring people to another place. The third is you have [to go] out to find somebody else and recruit a new person. So there is a big hole in the station.”