‘She became upset and I assured her that this was not a witchhunt‘
These are edited extracts from contemporaneous notes made by Garda HR Director John Barrett in 2015 while beginning his investigation into issues at Templemore.
WEDNESDAY, JUNE 17
Meeting between then-chief administrative officer Cyril Dunne, Chief Financial Officer Michael Culhane and Mr Barrett.
I raised my concerns about management of the College. ‘Michael Culhane pointed out that it was felt that these matters were best kept away from internal audit and would be very serious if they were to come into the view of the comptroller and auditor general.
‘I realised at this meeting that the risk and jeopardy of these appeared to be news to the CAO [chief administrative officer] who sits as part of the Audit committee.
THURSDAY, JUNE 18
Meeting between Templemore College Co-Director Pat McCabe and Mr Barrett.
Supt McCabe following me into my office. Pat said ‘well you have been doing a bit of digging’. I expressed my surprise about what I had learned since my meeting of last week where a wide variety of matters had surfaced… I explained I had become very concerned that such large transactions had essentially been managed by local arrangement; referenced the canteen, the shop, the sports field, the investments. Pat behaved in a very uneasy manner which suggested to me that while he might have anticipated a reference to the pool, firearms training and perhaps general laxness in the management of OT and T&S (per last week’s meeting) he appeared surprised by the degree of detail I had from 2008 and the quantum of the investments.
He told me that the investments had fallen in value to about €600,000 and that there was a plan to use some of it to contribute to the refurbishment of the building… I asked ‘why would that be a good idea?’ He told me the shop was loss making and that ‘lots of tidying up had been done since 2008’… I explained that as far as I was concerned it would all have to be put right, fully investigated and reviewed at a decision and transaction level. I offered the opinion that this was ‘bizarre stuff’ in the context of a civil service organisation. It was particularly unacceptable in the context of the standards of accountability and transparency I believed we should and will be held to. Pat said ‘he would welcome an effort to regularise the issues’ and concluded by saying ‘bring it on’. I asked Pat was he attending the scheduled 16.00 recruitment meeting and he asked ‘do I have to?’… rather than accentuate the awkwardness, I said to him it’s not necessary. He did not attend.
MONDAY, JUNE 22
Meeting between Garda Head of Legal Affairs Ken Ruane and Mr Barrett.
In the early morning of Monday, I presented at the office of Ken Ruane, HOLA, and asked for his advice. Over a coffee we discussed the situation, some of which he was aware of. He advised in the strongest possible terms to ensure that this matter was dealt with openly and transparently and that approach had to be the new orthodox in AGS [An Garda Síochána], irrespective of who might seek to oppose it.
TUESDAY, JUNE 23
Supt Pat McCabe called me on my desk telephone and advised me that he had sent me a copy of a report from 2010 on the outcome of a review led by AC Nolan on behalf of the Commissioner. The review confirmed that action was taken and the general issues were well understood. I said I had not yet read it but I would. Pat informed me that the position was known and understood at the level of the Commissioner, AGS Executive Staff, in the Department of J&E, D PER, the Department of the Taoiseach etc. I was relieved.
WEDNESDAY, JUNE 24
Chat with Supt Matt Nyland
Following our PAF meeting (10am-11.30am) Supt Matt Nyland offered to walk with me to C&S as I had an appointment with AC O’Mahony. As we walked, we discussed the history of this matter and his previous advice to me that I, as Exec Dir HR&PD, should not get involved in the resolution of these matters. I expressed my deeply held reservation about his approach and why I was clear that I could not and would not, close my eyes, as a senior civil servant, to this malpractice which I described as being unacceptable to the organisation and those staff members now in the middle of the maladministration.
Matt suggested that this was well known and that it was up to others in Finance etc to address this. I indicated to him that I was troubled by this suggested approach, though I understood the cultural warning and concern for my personal wellbeing that might be inherent in his suggestion.
NOTE: Matt is a longstanding, charming, bright and capable officer. He is deeply enculturated and trusted. His appointment to IA [Internal Affairs] in 2015 is a reflection of his ‘safe pair of hands’ reputation. His approach is classically old-school ‘protect the house’ and his extensive awareness of this matter suggests to me that there is indeed an historic level of visibility on the issue and an awareness that there have been powerful forces preserving the status quo. I was concerned for his approach and the wellmeaning warning inherent in it as I reflected upon in the days since.
JUNE 30, 2015
Meeting between Mr Barrett, CFO Michael Culhane and Barry McGee.
I advised the meeting that I had a meeting scheduled later that day with the CAO and I would be bringing him up to speed on our discussion. I explained I had an earlier conversation with him by phone wherein he said he had advised the Commissioner directly and that I understood from him that he was working toward the same end we were; the full and complete resolution of the historic issues and the establishment of robust and transparent structures which would conform to the best governance going forward. Meeting between Cyril Dunne and Barrett, 4.30pm. Having reviewed with Cyril some of the correspondence on file, I raised the question as to whether or not this entire matter warranted a S41 (1) (b) & (c) referral to the Minister for Justice… and the Sec General of the department. My logic was this matter did (in my judgment) fit that definition as it is on a material scale and has a substantial political dimension to it likely to effect [sic] public confidence, locally and nationally, most especially in the run up to a general election. Cyril said that while he was not ruling that out, he did not think that the time was right now for a S41. Telephone conversation between Mr Barrett, Cyril Dunne and Eugene Banks.
As we began to review a separate issue… my telephone rang and it was Mr Eugene Banks from the Department of J & E. With Cyril’s consent I took the call and we both spoke with him on speaker. Ironically, he advised us that he was calling about a letter which the Minister had received from Mr Michael Lowry concerning Templemore Golf Club and matter relating the efforts by AGS to have the Golf Club removed for the non-payment of rent.
Mr Banks explained that the Minister would be writing to us seeking a comprehensive update on this entire matter in the coming days. Cyril asked Eugene a number of questions as to his state of knowledge of the matter and Eugene explained he had… called Michael Culhane some weeks earlier when another question was received by the Minister from Noel Coonan TD and he had got certain of the details from Michael including the confusion around the ownership structure, and the fact that no rent had been paid by the Golf Club for almost six years, and that notice to quit was served more than two and a half years ago.
After the call ended… Cyril … said that we need to anticipate … matter was likely to become public given the political dimension, the all-too frequent use of the media in matters internal to AGS and the local networks. I agreed… and asked to ensure the #1 was fully aware. Cyril said he’d spoken to her and Commissioner was aware. Cyril proposed… establishing a steering group to verse all aspects of the necessary review of College affairs… and proposed Michael, myself and himself as central figures.
THURSDAY, JULY 2
8.54 am: Phone call between College Training Director Chief Supt Ann-Marie McMahon and Mr Barrett before meeting with Michael Culhane and Cyril Dunne
En route to the Garda College, at 8.54 I phoned Chief Ann-Marie McMahon … I advised her that Michael Culhane and Cyril Dunne would be in the College to join our 10.30 meeting. She expressed her surprise and asked why and I explained the financial and administrative matter we had reviewed in the course of our last conversation on the morning of Monday, June 29th were extremely serious and had substantial risk for the entire organisation.
She became upset and I assured her that this was not a witchhunt of any sort. This was all about dealing with the realities as we found them and seeking to understand the extent of the problems in their totality. 9.15am meeting at College between Mr Barrett, Cyril Dunne and Michael Culhane.
Cyril arrived and explained how he wanted to proceed with the meeting. His views in summary were that he wanted to make it clear that the opacity and local arrangements could not continue. He suggested that he wanted to kick the process off and establish a steering committee which should have HOLA [Ken Ruane] and the Director of Training [Chief Supt Ann McMahon] at the College in addition to ourselves. He said… he believed… this entire matter would… enter the public domain. He confirmed that he had spoken to the Commissioner about it. 10.30am Chief Supt Ann-Marie McMahon and Supt Jack Nolan join the meeting.
Cyril began by outlining his lack of awareness of the structures… operated within the college and his concern for good governance. He expressed the view that the lack of clarity exposed the college and the Commissioner to public enquiry. He… said he was not suggesting that people were doing wrong but that matters were opaque and he did not have clarity around funds flow, funds under management.
He made the point that all AGS monies flowed from the vote ultimately and any surpluses declared and returned to the Exchequer at year end.
Cyril said that he was only interested in the structure so he could advise the Accounting Officer and maybe down the road the PAC. Cyril offered the meeting the conclusion that ‘there is an element of which suggests that the College was funding itself’…
…Chief McMahon pointed out that there was surplus money here and that it was practice to invest this in the College. Cyril responded that he would have assumed that the Garda Vote would have paid the bills in the College as they do in all other parts of the organisation.
At this point Cyril expressed his discomfort with Supt Nolan and I taking notes… and I immediately agreed to cease.