WATT CLASHES WITH MINISTER IN PUB OVER PAY

O’Brien comment on €300k salary causes tension

ONE of the country’s most senior civil servants loudly confronted Housing Minister Darragh O’Brien in a crowded pub over the Cabinet member’s comment that details of a controversial €81,000 pay rise should be published, the Irish Mail on Sunday can reveal.

Department of Health general secretary Robert Watt challenged the minister after he publicly called for ‘transparency’ about

his huge wage hike. The drama unfolded in a packed bar, Reilly’s Pub, on Merrion Row on Thursday, February 10, shortly after Mr Watt confirmed he had taken the salary increase. The small pub is just 50 metres from the Department of Finance headquarters on Merrion Street and is a popular with civil servants and politicians.

Mr O’Brien entered the pub at around 9.30pm in the company of Fianna Fáil TDs Paul McAuliffe and Cormac Devlin, and Fine Gael TD Emer Higgins. The four had just attended a meeting of the Oireachtas Housing Committee.

Sources told the MoS the group sat at the bar, which is to the left of a door leading onto Merrion Row.

Four officials from the Department of Public Expenditure, including department secretary general David Moloney, were seated on the other side of the bar.

Mr Watt, formerly secretary general of the Department of Public Expenditure, entered the premises by the same door around 10 minutes after Mr O’Brien and his housing committee colleagues, intending to join his fellow civil servants.

An eyewitness said Mr O’Brien made a comment to Mr Watt referencing a recent Government trip he took to Dubai with Health Minister Stephen Donnelly, saying he ‘hoped he had got in a round of golf’.

The source said ‘a loud exchange’ then ‘kicked off’.

‘It wasn’t the right place to raise that issue’

Mr Watt, the country’s highestpaid civil servant, responded by referring to a comment Mr O’Brien made at a press conference – when the minister said he believed the mandarin’s wages should be transparent and he should declare if he had accepted a controversial €81,000 pay rise – loudly repeating the phrase ‘complete transparency’ at the minister several times.

One eyewitness said Mr Watt – who has since confirmed the pay rise that has hiked his salary to €297,869 – appeared ‘agitated’ and described his conduct as ‘embarrassing’. A source described Mr Watt’s behaviour as ‘inappropriate’, ‘loud’ and ‘irregular’.

However, another eyewitness insisted the exchange was nothing more than ‘banter’.

A source told the MoS: ‘Darragh came in, he brought a couple of guys in after the [housing] estimates and a few of the lads from the Department of Public Expenditure were there.

‘And then himself [Watt] rocked in and he started saying, “Oh there he is, Mr Transparency”.

‘He [Watt] was obviously a little bit exercised because of the answer, if you recall, that [Irish Daily Mail political correspondent] Craig Hughes asked Darragh in Lucan [at a press conference], which Darragh was perfectly entitled to answer, about whether he [Watt] should say whether he was taking the €81,000 [pay rise] or not.

‘Darragh said at the time “absolutely”, that he should. He was very clear. So it was obvious that Watt had a major issue with that.’

A witness said Mr Watt subsequently came over to Mr O’Brien and ‘kind of apologised’, but still said he felt the minister ‘had wronged him’. They added: ‘Darragh said that he [Watt] should have told people whether he had accepted the increase. There was a small bit of back and forth and that was it.

‘Darragh said to him, “I stand over what I said completely.”’

Several sources said that they believed Mr Watt’s conduct was ‘highly irregular’.

An eyewitness said: ‘It wasn’t the right place to raise that issue, let’s be frank about it.

‘It was a very short engagement and highly irregular.

‘He [Watt] was offered a chance to speak to Oireachtas committees about the issue and he didn’t take it.

‘It wasn’t aggressive, but still it was loud. And he was obviously quite exercised.’

Details of the heated exchange between the minister and mandarin have emerged after Mr Watt was this week publicly challenged over his ‘combative’ appearance before the Oireachtas Committee on Health.

During the hearing, Senator Martin Conway tackled Mr Watt over the ‘combative nature’ of his responses when asked about his commitment to implement health service reforms, saying: ‘I am greatly alarmed by your answers to these questions, but also the combative nature of your answers to these questions. You are going to have to reflect on that because I’m very concerned that you don’t

‘It wasn’t aggressive, but still it was loud’

understand Sláintecare in the same way we understand Sláintecare.’

In response, Mr Watt said he was very committed to reform and

implementing the changes needed to bring in Sláintecare. And in relation to the tone of his answers, he curtly replied: ‘That’s a trait, you love it or hate it. There’s nothing I can really do about it now.’

Some of those who witnessed Mr Watt’s exchange with Mr O’Brien in O’Reilly’s Pub said the senior officials in his company seemed ‘embarrassed’ by the exchange.

A source said: ‘I think [David] Moloney was a bit embarrassed then, because at the start it seemed a bit jokingly. But he [Watt] did come afterwards, in fairness, saying, “Oh, well, you know, housing is going great, blah, blah, blah”, all this type of stuff, you know. So I think he realised he shouldn’t have said what he said, you know.

‘It’s water off a duck’s back for Darragh though.’

Another source said Mr Watt’s manner with a Cabinet minister surprised those present.

However, another eyewitness described the exchange between the senior civil servant and the minister as ‘banter’ between two men who have known each other for years.

‘It’s all bulls*** [to say it was a row],’ they said.

‘Robert was in a pub with a few people and he’s having a f***ing pint there. Darragh’s there and he’s slagging Robert about “how are you getting on in Dubai?” and Robert was slagging him about all those houses he was building and whatever.

‘Darragh was asked about Robert’s salary [at the earlier press conference] and he said “we need transparency”, or whatever.

‘So Robert was slagging him [saying], “Ah Darragh, full transparency” and he [O’Brien] was slagging Robert, saying, “How was Dubai?”

‘Anyone that characterises that as a row is wrong.’

Another source not directly connected to either camp described the exchange as a ‘ding-dong’.

They told the MoS: ‘Reilly’s Pub, it’s very small and narrow. Mr Watt entered through the Merrion Street door to see Mr O’Brien’s group to his left and his own group of four senior civil servants sitting to the right of the door under a small television. The secretary general [Moloney] had his back to the window and he was facing the bar,’ said the eyewitness.

The eyewitness said another two men, who are believed to be part of the Government Buildings security team, were also drinking at the other end of the bar, and that there were 13 people in the pub at the time.

‘I was in the bar having a drink, looking at the game. Liverpool beat Leicester 2-0 that night. There are two televisions in Reilly’s Bar and it is a popular location for football.

‘Darragh, McAuliffe and Emer Higgins were coming into the bar. All the finance [public expenditure] officials said, “Hello Minister, hello Minister….” They all addressed him as minister as they were coming in.

‘So in comes Watt about 10 minutes later. I don’t remember the first sentence that was said but it kicked off… I think Darragh asked, “How was the trip to Dubai?” or something like that.

‘Watt kind of took into him, [saying], “Why were you asking about my salary?”

‘I don’t have exact phrase but the phrase he kept using [was] “absolute transparency... absolute transparency”.

‘The two of them had a bit of a ding-dong then. Darragh was kind of having a laugh at it.

‘He was trying to have a bit of a joke. Not a joke... but not as serious. Watt was serious. Watt was getting really agitated. So much so that everyone in the pub went kind of silent.

‘And then they were laughing at what was going on. The whole pub could hear and see what was going on.’

The eyewitness said Mr Watt’s tone in his exchange with a senior Cabinet minister was ‘an embarrassment’.

They added: ‘I was thinking – I didn’t say, but I was thinking – “Robert, be careful now, because this man could be your boss in December after a reshuffle.”

The source said the entire exchange lasted ‘two to three minutes’, adding: ‘They weren’t in one another’s face, but they were very close as it is very narrow [in the bar].’

When contacted, both men declined to comment.

‘Everyone in the pub went kind of silent’