Te reo, trinkets and those billion trees

Jones says housing a ordability, climate change and poverty are the three main challenges facing the country.

Maori Development Minister Nanaia Mahuta has said that the requirement to teach te reo in schools is a matter of “not if” but “when”. New Zealand First opposes the idea.

That seems an odd position for a “great orator” to take?

My knowledge of te reo is something I consider to be a taonga. However, as a professional politician, I’m required to have priorities. Going forward, the priorities I push as a member of New Zealand First are more focused on turning around the socio-economic fortunes of the average Maori family.

How can you justify not supporting the entrenchment of the Maori seats when you have previously stood in one of those seats?

It is true that both I and my leader, Winston Peters, have stood in Maori electorates. Our preference is always for a referendum on such matters, but I wouldn’t undervalue the number of New Zealand politicians who have Maori whakapapa. I offer no criticism of the current holders of our Maori seats. However, I believe the zest for enrolling on the Maori roll has diminished, because of the performance of the Maori Party when it held some of these electorates. It allowed the seats to become a political form of trinket to keep the last Government in power, a Government which had a negative impact on those whom I’m trying to represent.

What do you consider your most signi cant contribution to politics?

Without a doubt, my most significant contribution is becoming a Cabinet minister, along with Peters, and rolling out the One Billion Trees programme and the Provincial Growth Fund. While the road ahead won’t always be smooth, I believe these two policies will have a gamechanging impact on our country.

What do you consider your greatest failure?

The ignominy associated with the blue movies/credit card episode tops the chart.

What do you see as the three biggest challenges facing New Zealand?

First, housing affordability: as it stands, thousands can look forward to a lifetime as tenants, which I believe destroys the New Zealand dream. Second, the economic transition associated with climate change, and convincing ordinary working-class Kiwis that it is a transition for which everyone will need to pay their fair share. Finally, few things can bring me to tears, but I find myself getting quite emotional when I’m confronted by the grinding poverty seen in some parts of this country. I did not come from a wealthy family, but for some of our least fortunate, I believe their prospects are worse than when I was growing up. That is why I’m so insistent on getting people into work and addressing the social ills that face us.

How many trees of those promised one billion have you planted so far?

I refer you to the tree counter we have just launched on the new Te Uru Rakau website, which will be updated weekly during the winter planting season. I have participated in a few ceremonial plantings so far, and have approximately 150 trees sitting in pots out the back of my house that I intend to plant during Matariki. I just have to ensure for the Government’s survival, and my own domestic bliss, that I don’t put my back out. What is your response to National’s Wairarapa MP Alastair Scott’s accusation that the industry is still keenly awaiting the proposed National Forestry Strategy and that, “there are three big questions that need answers: Where are the seedlings coming from? Where are the trees going to be planted? And who is going to plant them?” Where are the seedlings coming from? Commercial exotic forestry nurseries produce 50-60 million seedlings a year and have signalled their capacity to scale up production. Several of the large commercial nurseries have assured me that they would be able to double production.

In terms of native seedlings, the Government has invested in Minginui Nursery to scale up production and deliver forestry-grade seedlings for planting (1 million by 2020). Other native nurseries are also keen to increase production, and to participate in supply of seedlings to the One Billion Trees planting programme. Approximately 10 million native seedlings are currently produced by native nurseries.

Where are the trees going to be planted?

The programme will support a wide range of tree-planting – including riparian, biodiversity, permanent protection forests and commercial forestry on suitable land across New Zealand. We are working closely with regional councils, iwi and other stakeholders to ensure the right trees are planted in the right place for the right purpose.

Who is going to plant them?

Communities, landowners, commercial contractors (including forestry companies).

He had the best question of the interview: “Are you a sort of unfettered opportunist?” Had he been reading my questions? “Hey, it’s not only wahines who have acuity! …”

He says any idea that he is an unfettered opportunist is “a convenient attempt to stigmatise me.” It might also be understandable mistrust. “Trust is something that you have to try and convey but more importantly it comes with people feeling they know more about you. So the more I increase the visibility …”

We may already know quite enough about him. “It would appear not, because you’re believing in the strands that are excessively negative.”

Here’s a negative strand: He “forgot” that officials had warned him that the proposed West Coast waste-to-energy scheme he promoted was a lemon.

Forgot! He admits that detail is not his strength. “I like dealing with the public. I really do that part of the mahi. I find a lot of briefing papers tedious, so that possibly means I could do better paying attention to the detailed nature of the briefings.”

His stock answer to the often-asked question about whether he will be the next leader of New Zealand First is that “there is an old English term. That is called regicide and when you talk about such matters, it means you get your head lopped off. So, no, no, we want him to continue riding with us in the waka.”

What if Peters fell out of the waka?

“Yes, well, that would be like a biblical event.” Even Peters has to die sometime. “You see, you are tempting me to put my head in the noose. I just told you, this is not a noose that this weka is going into.”

He is politically and personally “Januslike … it depends”. Janus was a Roman god with two faces: he looks to the future and the past. He is the god of duality and transitions; beginnings and endings. Which is all nicely metaphorical for a politician with Jones’ CV, but it is also, I say, problematic. He says he is the proxy for any number of average blokes; that the women who vote for him are the readers of women’s magazines (which he likes reading, too) and probably not the readers of the Guardian.

He will no doubt accuse me of being an intellectual snob, but the thing most people will know about Janus is the twofaced aspect. What he means (I think) is that he knows his audience.

“Boy, in this game you bloody well need to … I can face my own people, Maori people, then I face other groups. I’m the same person but I’ve got the skills to have different faces.” That is honest beyond the point most politicians would care to go, but I say: “People don’t want you to be Janus. They want to know what you stand for.”

TURNING THE TABLES

Early on, he decided to critique my interviewing technique. “You’re so shrewd. Yeah, the way you are composing your thoughts in some of these questions. It’s not the average sort of interview. It’s designed to cause people to make fools of themselves. But you’ve met your match in me. Mmm. Hmm. I’m going to give you answers that you will no doubt have the chance to skilfully manipulate. But I need to leave this interview knowing this [meaning his interviewer, presumably] is a very articulate and shrewd person. As long as I feel, when I leave … [that] the answers that I gave were the truth of what I felt at the time … then don’t worry about it.”

My not-very-shrewd head was spinning. Did he mean that he might change his mind about his answers half-way down the stairs? “Nothing’s static!” To pinch a Jonesism, I already know the truth.

Jones believes in “by the sweat of thy brow”, he says. I say he makes up the script as he goes along. He replies, “Oh, the wind has picked up. The sail is stretched. We’re sailing totally in the right direction. I got that analogy by looking at those sailing boats.”

There was a photograph of old sailing boats on the wall. I had asked him, earlier, what felt like 100 hours ago, whether he rehearsed his lines. That was a remarkably stupid question. I also wish I hadn’t asked whether he read the thesaurus in bed at night, now that he’s not watching porn. That was opening the door all right. “No, no. I’m too exhausted after I’ve spent several hours in bed to do much of anything. Ha, ha, ha.”

He claims he is not going to laugh at his own jokes any more. I say I’m not going to laugh at his jokes any more. We were both lying. Oops. One cannot go about accusing ministers of lying. What I really mean is that we were telling the truth as we felt it at the time and reserved the right to change our minds halfway down the stairs. Or something like that.