Lim comments shows women facing barriers in boardroom
‘All they’re looking at is your legs’ . . . spotlight on how women are treated in boardroom after Lim controversy. By Kevin Norquay and Tracy Watkins.
When DGL chief executive and founder Simon Henry called Nadia Lim ‘‘a little bit of Eurasian fluff . . . showing some cleavage’’ it raised questions as to whether that was accepted in business circles.
Is it possible, in 2022, that there are still pockets of sexism in the boardroom?
Sadly yes, says Women on Boards chair Julie Hardaker, a lawyer and former Hamilton mayor. Women on Boards, part of Governance New Zealand, supports women from the beginning of their board careers.
‘‘Sadly, there are still today attitudes from some about gender and diversity that create barriers and discourage women from taking up board roles, or that impact negatively on women who are board directors,’’ Hardaker told the Sunday Star-Times.
‘‘It is proven there is enormous value added to the performance and decision-making of boards by having women at the board table.
‘‘It is also demeaning when women are not valued for their skills, expertise and contribution, and are there to tick the box against a board diversity policy.
‘‘I’ve seen talented women leave board roles frustrated over attitudes. As more boards achieve gender equity, and many boards have, attitudes and board culture changes.’’
One female board member, who joined the governance of a newly listed company in the late 1980s, is not surprised that sexism in the boardroom still exists.
‘‘I found it quite challenging and was worried that I wasn’t making a sufficient contribution,’’ she said, asking not to be named. ‘‘I felt I wasn’t smart enough to come up with the right questions.’’
When she asked a male board member for guidance the response was a shock: ‘It doesn’t really matter, all they are looking at is your legs’.
‘‘I had a good professional background, I was definitely equipped and able, and I was chosen which was nice,’’ she says. ‘‘But that was the thing that came out. They hadn’t noticed whether or not I was adding any value as they were too busy looking at my legs.’’
Justine Smyth is chair of Spark, and co-chair of Champions for Change, a group of 40 or so CEOs and chairs who believe a prosperous New Zealand relies on working together to promote diversity in leadership.
She said Spark is a successful New Zealand business and consistent performer, governed by a board with a 60/40 gender split ‘‘and – shock horror – a female chair and CEO’’.
Smyth said Henry’s comments were ‘‘nothing short of disgraceful’’.
‘‘The fact the chair and CEO of an NZX listed company felt it appropriate to voice such derogatory, racist and chauvinistic views is a sad indictment on him personally, and a reminder of how much more work we have to do in Aotearoa to build a business community where inclusion is the norm,’’ Smyth said. ‘‘His ignorance of the overwhelming body of evidence that demonstrates the benefits diversity brings to the board table is matched only by his arrogance in thinking he is entitled to belittle another business leader in the first place.’’
Yesterday morning Lim said she had not personally heard from Henry, but had been forwarded a screenshot of the staff email.
Henry said he had tried to contact Lim to apologise but by late last night she had still not received any emails, web messages or courier packages and no missed calls.
Lim said she ‘‘wasn’t seeking’’ an apology from Henry.
Smyth said she hoped the experience caused Henry to reconsider how he measured his success.
‘‘It would pay to focus a little less on one’s own net worth, and a little more on leadership, character, and being a positive force for progress in Aotearoa.’’
Bindi Norwell is group CEO of Procare, a board member of Whakarongorau and CareHQ and deputy chair of the Auckland branch of the Institute of Directors.
She said board members should accurately represent the communities their organisation serves.
‘‘It’s important that diversity comes from the top, and that the group of people sitting around the table are really committed to diversity and that they provide a ‘safe’ space for that to occur. It can’t be just a ‘tick box’ exercise, otherwise, the change you’re looking to instil will never happen.
‘‘Diversity needs to be across multiple areas too – it can’t just be about gender or ethnicity. Diversity of thinking is important too.’’
Food and Grocery Council chief executive Katherine Rich said she was staggered by Henry’s comments.
‘‘With [Lim’s] credibility, her place in the food industry, her leadership in the food industry, the way she conducts herself . . . there’s nothing about the way she conducts herself that could contribute to his thinking.’’
But Rich says for women of her generation it would be less shocking than for younger women.
‘‘Certainly if you had a career in the 80s and 90s there were comments like that made by some men.’’
She recalled for instance being referred to by the MC as ‘‘perky’’ after speaking at a business conference.
‘‘But these days – it just doesn’t happen and certainly in the part of the food industry I work in, you don’t hear that sort of thing.
‘‘The comments he made would be a firing offence in many of the multinational consumer goods companies which are working hard to ensure diversity and leadership and safe work environments.’’
Abby Foote is chair of Z Energy, and is an independent director of Freightways, Sanford, and KMD Holdings.
She said the data was really clear that diversity on boards was a way of contributing to long term shareholder value.
‘‘There could be implicit within some of those comments, some suggestion that having women on your board is kind of tokenism, and not about real governance – I don’t want to suggest things for Simon Henry that he didn’t say, but his comments were pretty offensive and did . . . suggest that he wasn’t a supporter of diversity.’’
Foote was speaking over a Zoom call with other female directors – Susan Peterson, chair of Vista Group and an independent director of Xero, PFI, Arvida, and Craigs Investment Partners, and Julia Raue, an independent director of The Warehouse Group, Z Energy, Southern Cross Medical Society, Southern Cross Healthcare and Jade Software.
‘‘ I think from our perspective we’re all fortunate, the three of us, to sit on boards where individuals both male and female are real supporters of diversity around board tables; so I don’t sit on any boards with anyone like Simon Henry.
‘‘And I think the other point to make from a listed company perspective is that the most successful companies are increasingly taking an even longer term view on what drives success and that’s about looking beyond the short term financial performance and into longer term issues.
‘‘That’s diversity and inclusion; it’s climate change ... so it’s really good that boards are keeping up with the way communities are changing and expecting more from governors.’’
Peterson said the southern hemisphere was behind many other parts of the world.
‘‘In the northern hemisphere there’s been a big conversation about ethnic inclusion and while we’re still talking about gender in New Zealand, and this is the conversation today, the big funding flows to the bigger more successful companies are actually demanding that companies be more literate around ethnic inclusion in all its forms and obviously also gender. So the issue we’ve got here is that New Zealand, and Australia to some extent, are slower than the rest of the world, and we need to play catch up.’’
It had not escaped anyone’s notice that Henry’s comments were targeted at Lim, rather than the other My Food Bag founders.
‘‘She is young, she is of Asian heritage, and she’s female. And we do know from our colleagues that if you hit up the three of those categories, you have a harder road.’’
Raue said she, Peterson and Foote were fortunate to sit around board tables where they did not witness such behaviour.
‘‘But part of good governance, and being a good corporate citizen, means that if we do witness this behaviour that we need to stand up to it and make sure it’s not accepted, we need to call it out, we need to stamp it out.’’
‘‘Sadly, there are still today attitudes from some about gender and diversity that create barriers and discourage women from taking up board roles.’’ Women on Boards chair Julie Hardaker