Head to head
The verdict
Labour leader Jacinda Ardern has threatened retaliation on Australia if it goes ahead with plans to make New Zealanders pay more for tertiary education, saying “if they lock us out of tertiary education, we will lock them out of it here”.
It was one of several surprising pledges from Ardern and National leader Bill English in the second leaders' debate on Newshub last night.
English also got in a surprise pledge under questioning from moderator Patrick Gower, saying he would commit to a target of getting 100,000 children out of poverty.
That came after he launched into a strong defence of National's record on child poverty, pointing to measures such as increasing the benefit rate and its Families Incomes package in this year's Budget.
“Compared to five years ago, 60,000 fewer kids wake up tomorrow morning in a benefit dependent household. That's a big change . . . I'm proud of what we have done and I want to really have a go at it.”
Ardern called for a legislated target to reduce child poverty, saying her entire reason for being in politics was to eliminate child poverty. She pointed to Labour's own families package as delivering more to those families.
Ardern also repeated the pledge of former Prime Minister John Key to resign rather than increase the age of superannuation. Labour campaigned to lift the super age to 67 in the last two elections, but is staying with 65 this election and Ardern said she believed starting contributions to the Super Fund was enough.
It was an echo of Key's pledge in 2008 which was aimed at putting to bed speculation National would increase the super age — and helped it get into government.
But it prompted a jab by English: “Well isn't that letting down her generation, because they are going to have to pay the bill for that.”
It was a reference to Ardern's answer to an earlier question about what she had that English did not — “generational change and a vision for the future of New Zealand”.
English is proposing lifting the super age to 67 from 2034. It was the second time the two leaders had met and both were a lot more fired up and willing to confront each other, getting jabs in on issues from immigration to infrastructure. Immigration was another area of difference, with Ardern defending Labour's plan to cut immigration by 20,000 — 30,000 a year, saying it was aimed at migrants on “low-value courses” rather than those in skills shortage areas.
Gower asked Ardern how the 100,000 houses in its Kiwibuild policy would be delivered if it was cutting back on immigration and could not get the builders to build them, prompting English to quip Labour would give visas to New Zealand builders to work in Auckland. On immigration and the pressure it was putting on Auckland's infrastructure, English said that was being fixed as things such as the Waterview Tunnel had shown.
The tunnel got some applause but Ardern scoffed saying “it's not a plan or a vision, it's a tunnel”.
That prompted a return fire from English about Ardern's values and vision: “Let's get rid of all the orange cones and see if people can live on the vision.”
English said the Government was now “flat out” building hospitals and roads, but Ardern said National's plan had been “selling houses to each other and immigration”.
Gower asked about National's claims earlier in the day that Labour had a $11.7 billion hole in its plan — which Ardern insisted was wrong,
and said National was trying to damage Labour's economic credibility.
She said Labour did not want to see people lose the value in their homes, but it should not be as hard as it was for first-home buyers.
“I don't accept our teachers, nurses and police officers can't get into their first homes. You've had nine years, it's time to hand over to someone with a vision and a plan.”
Ardern also bit back at English's attack on Labour's tax policies after English claimed Labour was eyeing up a raft of new taxes in its first term.
“That is scaremongering Bill, and you've done it through the whole campaign,” Ardern said.
English said Labour's policies would stall housing supply. He claimed a capital gains tax was inevitable for Labour to afford its promises, and that would affect the same police, teachers and nurses Ardern claimed to be trying to get into their first homes.