BARONESS VALERIEAMOS
Baroness Valerie Amos was the eighth UN Under-Secretary-General for Humanitarian Affairs and Emergency Relief Coordinator. Before her appointment to the UN, she served as British High Commissioner to Australia. She was created a Labour Life Peer in 1997, becoming Leader of the House of Lords and Lord President of the Council. When Amos was appointed Secretary of State for International Development in May 2003, she became the first black woman to sit in the Cabinet of the United Kingdom. In July 2010, SecretaryGeneral of the United Nations Ban Ki-moon announced Baroness Amos’s appointment to the role of UnderSecretary-General for Humanitarian Affairs and Emergency Relief Coordinator. She took up the position in September 2010 and remained in post until May 2015. In September 2015 Amos was appointed Director of SOAS, University of London, becoming the first black woman to lead a university in the United Kingdom. Recently Valerie visited Lagos for the SOAS Centenary Campaign dinner hosted by H.E Toyin Ojora Saraki (an alumni of SOAS) and also the SOAS Centenary Celebration reception hosted by Funke Oladitan-Oduwole (another alumni). RUTH OSIME spent a morning with her to share views on the institution and also other issues concerning the empowerment of Africans and specifically the women.
taking your history in politics, do you think there is still as much passion in it now as when you first started?
I absolutely think there is still passion in politics. But I think that it’s very different today to the way it used to be. I don’t think that politics is just about party politics, it’s more than that, it’s about the way we live our lives, the way we relate to each other. All of these things have, for me, have a political, with a small ‘p’, dimension. In the United Kingdom, when I was first politically engaged, it was very much around campaigns. I grew up in a family that was very outward looking, very engaged in what was happening in the world. And I remember growing up with a strong sense that there were parts of the world where we were not seeing equality and justice. What was happening in Apartheid South Africa, for example, was always a big debating point around the table; what was happening with post-colonial movements in West Africa, in East Africa and Southern African countries like Mozambique, it was very much part of the context I grew up in. I was also campaigning around equality and women’s rights with a certain kind of activism. I became engaged in party politics more directly when I went into the House of Lords in 1997, and I think that today, for a lot of young people, it’s much more about the activism around issues, rather than being about engagement through a political party. And I think it’s interesting to watch. For example, if you look at what young people are involved in in a country like Nigeria, there are people who care passionately about the environment, there are people who care passionately about what’s happening to girls, and there is, to a certain extent, less engagement and also less tolerance of party politics in the sort of traditional way of engaging with political elites. But the passion is still there; I just think it’s taking a different form. Do you feel there is less connection between the elitist political parties and the people that they serve like what happened in america with hilary clinton losing the election?
I think there are several things happening. There is a perception that the political elite is out of touch with the views of people on the ground. We’ve seen it in the UK; we are now seeing it in the U.S.; and when you look at countries on the African continent, it takes a slightly different form, because the idea of democracy as elections is something that is more recent. And there is a concern that those parties have been, historically, overwhelmingly male elitist and are not necessary for the people. in the african continent, there seems to be a disconnect between the politicians and the people. a lack of trust of their leaders as history has proven.
There is definitely a lack of trust, a perceived lack of engagement and the perception that people get into politics for their own ends and not for the people. I was out of direct political engagement, day to day contact, in the UK from 2009 till last year. I went back to the U.K. in 2015 and I say to people that now, even before I left, when I went out to campaign and talk to people at their doorsteps, you could see that people were feeling that the things that they cared about were not the things that the political parties were engaged with. And one of the challenges is that there are contradictions in the things people care about. you can worry about immigration and you can vote for the Labour Party and not see that as a contradiction. So if the Labour Party in the U.K. is not acknowledging that some of its members worry about immigration, then people are going to feel that there’s a disconnect. If you don’t appear to be dealing with what’s happening in the nation, to housing, to social services and other policies and, political rhetoric that are made – if those policies are not delivered on – then that trust gap gets much wider. are you not tired of hearing about africa’s potentials when most of it has been lost by the inactivity and lack of direction by africans themselves, isn’t it time we took responsibilities for or actions or lack thereof?
I don’t agree with the premise of your question, in the sense that I think that the situation is multifaceted, that there are a number of different dimensions to it. One of the things that I have always been amazed by is the energy, the creativity, the innovation that we see by people in different countries in Africa, almost despite the efforts of governments and others, despite the creation of enabling environments to facilitate that innovation and development. So I would not look at Africans themselves and say that they have not engaged in a constructive way in seeking to move forward the development of the continent. I think it’s very different when you look at some of those who are engaged in leadership and in political positions, where it is not clear that they are engaged in those positions, or that they want to be Ministers or Presidents, to actually improve the lot of the people in their countries. And there are many examples we can point to where that has not happened. But I think that there are also many examples that you can point to, of people who are doing the opposite of that and do have a commitment. So I think the situation is more nuanced than headlines sometimes demonstrate.
I also think that it is really important to remember that situations in countries don’t just happen, they have a history, a context, and there are relationships. There are many examples of
It is very important for Africans themselves to invest in their countries and continent. When you look at the figures, you cannot necessarily expect direct investment from outside if you are not prepared to do that investment yourself.
interference in the affairs of countries from other more powerful countries across the world. I look at some of the conflicts on the African continent which have gone on for a very long time. you look at countries like the Democratic Republic of Congo. Look at what has happened in South Sudan, Iran and many other examples. There are many examples of people working to tackle the problems of corruption, neurotic bureaucracy, and environment. And I feel very strongly that the picture across the continent is a much more complicated one than is sometimes painted. Whether we like it or not, corruption does play a major role in politics especially when it comes to leadership in most african countries. We are rich in culture and growth and if led in the right direction, we can be like Dubai. but sadly when you look at some of these african countries, they are very lacking in terms of growth. how do you think we can encourage the younger generation to fight corruption and be less financially dependent on foreign countries that sometimes exploit them under the guise of assistance?
Absolutely! Let’s remember that the understanding of the African continent, the complexity, the richness, the differences and the diversity is something that is not understood across most of the world. And I think we sometimes forget that. This understanding is something we have not really talked about and people have not necessarily wanted to understand it.
and why is that?
I think it’s because there has been a long history of a perception of people of African origin as being somehow ‘lesser’. I know that we no longer think of Africa as the ‘dark continent’, but that history of thinking about the African continent in that way is something which is deeply embedded in the psyche of a lot of people around the world, and has also had an impact in the way that we are perceived in countries where we are not the majority. So dealing with that perception of us, our peoples, our history, and now, how they are governed, is something that we need to remember. It is very important for Africans themselves to invest in their countries and continent. When you look at the figures, you cannot necessarily expect direct investment from outside if you are not prepared to do that investment yourself.
Make yourself an attractive bride so to speak...
But if you look at major investments in Nigeria today, Nigerians themselves make it and there has had to be a lot of work done to attract outside investments. That’s why I challenge the perception that just talks about corruption; yes, you have to tackle corruption, yes, you have to create an enabling environment, rule of law and a judicial system that works, but I think we also have to remember and acknowledge that this is a continent of 53 countries with a diversity of peoples, economies and economic growth. yes, mistakes have been made, but every single minute of every day, you can point to achievements, successes; progress, which is not necessarily discussed.
Which do you think is the best way forward... aiding africa or trading with africa?
If we are talking about economic growth and development, it’s always got to be about trade enabling environments. There’s a responsibility we have if we are the richest countries in the world, think about how we support, particularly support countries that are not at a point where they are able to invest in some of their social services to the extent required, where there is a need to have development support. So I don’t think it’s abnormal. But there is no doubt that inclusive economic growth is critical.
Do you think african women need sexual revolution or a revolution of self-awareness?
As a woman of African heritage, I would say that I don’t think it’s so much that women need a sexual revolution. The women I talk to are very conscious of who or what they are about. In every country across the world, there is discrimination against women. There is something we have to address, which is a deep-seated discrimination that exists against women. you look at situations of conflict where men use women to get at the men that they are fighting against. They use sexual assault, violence and rape against women, as a means of trying to weaken their opposition. And when we talk about the history of conflict and war, we think that this is something that happened many years ago, but it is happening now. What makes that acceptable? What is it in the relationships between men and women and the prior relations between men, where there is a perception that if you violate the woman, you are somehow gaining an upper hand over another man? These are deep-seated and deep-rooted prejudices and discrimination. So I don’t think it’s just about what’s happening in the African continent; it’s about what is happening to women across the world.
in war-torn villages and countries around the world, the women and the children are worst hit. they sometimes even get abused in their refugee camps which leads me to my next question...is there a solution to the world’s refugee crisis?
Refugees are from crisisridden societies. So if the war and conflicts stop, then you would begin to halt the number of people who are fleeing, either internally because what we need to remember is that the majority of refugees live internally first. What they then do is go across the border from the source of violence internally, sometimes they move several times, and then when they get really desperate, they move to a neighbouring country, and when they begin to lose all hope, they start to move even further afield. So dealing with the sources of violence and conflict and trying to bring those conflicts to an end, in the first place, will be a major solution.
But that in itself, does not then deal with the second and third order of innocent people. The second being people who move from countries where they feel that their rights or their abilities to enjoy a degree of economic freedom and growth is not available for them anymore. So we see movement of people from countries like Eritrea, where there is no necessary war, but where people feel constrained by the situation in their country. Then there is the natural movement of people that happens around the world, which is something none of us would want to see cut out. The concerns that I have sometimes, is that politicians terribly conflate these three things, because there are different solutions to them.
Do you think there will ever be equality?
Well, I’m an optimist. And I’ve spent a lot of my working life in a variety of different ways working for equality and social justice. So, yes I have to believe that. But I have to say that I get knock backs all the time. Power brings with it responsibility, but we also see how power is abused in societies. There are personal dimensions to discrimination and prejudice, which we don’t sufficiently conto
Success is not just about hard work. Sometimes, it is about being at the right place at the right time so there’s an element of that in all of us. But my sense is that women, on the whole, do have to do better to achieve a similar level of success as the men.
front. So it’s something I would be working for throughout my life. I won’t see and end to it in my lifetime, but I would hope that at some point in the future, there would be equality. That doesn’t mean there won’t be differences between people, but that people are able to judge themselves equally. regardless of the great strides women have taken in various professional ventures, do you feel there is still prejudice against women especially in politics; which might explain why we haven’t had more female leaders?
I think that’s true. If you look at when women are campaigning for public office, the ways in which they are charged, there is no doubt that there is a difference with the way men are charged. But women in politics accept that it is tough. I don’t think there is a single woman who is successful who won’t say to you at some point that she has had to be better at what she does. Success is not just about hard work. Sometimes, it is about being at the right place at the right time so there’s an element of that in all of us. But my sense is that women, on the whole, do have to do better to achieve a similar level of success as the men. Who tells the truth?
That’s a great modern question and it’s one of the questions we at SOAS are asking in the context of our ‘Questions Worth Asking’ campaign, because in our centenary year, what we are saying to the world is that there are some really tough and difficult questions out there, and there is not always an easy answer to it. I think in terms of who tells the truth, it has become, with greater communication. Social media, for a lot of people, has become their particular worldview and how they see it; and the worry that I have is that facts and the importance that we used to give to having evidence based information, for the decisions that we make, has gradually eroded.
So, for me, it is about recognising that we have to put evidence squarely in the picture, but also recognising that we would bring our own political emotions and other perspectives to the way that we read those facts. as a Director in soas, what would you like the soas students to leave with after their tenure?
Most of our students are undergraduates and are here for three years. Our post-graduate students are here for a year or two, our research students for longer. A lot of students come to SOAS because they want to see how they can be able to influence our world. They are also passionate about what they can do to help to change it, wherever they end up. Students who come to SOAS want to have an experience which they cannot have anywhere else. We take great pride in our diversity. We currently, on campus, have students from over 113 countries. Our staff comes from over 90 countries. So that worldview, that recognition, academic and intellectual excellence comes from this kind of rich environment for debate. I want that ability to question, challenge and be confident in the way one can engage and question conventional orthodoxy in the world; I want that to remain at the heart of what a SOAS student is about. And anywhere I go in the world, talking to students who have gone through SOAS, they all say they can recognize a SOAS alumni elsewhere. since your stay, have you visited any tourist sites?
Not yet. We have been very focused on the SOAS centenary events and we have some wonderful alumni. We at SOAS have a knowledge base, a research base, a partnership and collaboration with the African continent, which is deeper than any other university. We have been doing it for the past 100 years. We have the largest number of academics working on Africa than any other university outside of the African continent. So we want to remind everybody of that. That has been my focus over the past couple of days. I guess I just have to come back and do the sightseeing another time although I have been here several times in the past. you also run an ngo called amos bursary, where Michael Prest is one of the patrons. tell us about it.
Let me say I’m also a patron. It’s my sister that runs the NgO. Together, we founded it in memory of our parents, who were both teachers, passionate about education and who died within nine days of each other. We wanted to create a charity in their memory. It is nearly ten years old and focuses on spotting young men of African and Caribbean heritage in the UK, London focused at the moment. We found out that the dropout rates in universities were higher in this group. So what we do is to mentor, support, do skills development, give them access to national and international opportunities through internships to help them through their A levels into university, and eventually, help them get jobs. We also want them to be able to give back to their communities. We started with seven young men; we now have over 90. We are a charity, we don’t get funding from government. We have some important partnerships. Some support through scholarship, some with internship, others with sponsorship and funds.
We at SOAS have a knowledge base, a research base, a partnership and collaboration with the African continent, which is deeper than any other university. We have been doing it for the past 100 years. We have the largest number of academics working on Africa than any other university outside of the African continent.