Cumbersome Legal Process Delaying Return of Loot, Says US Diplomat, Maria Brewer...
She is a diplomat’s diplomat who understands the nuances of international diplomacy and engagement. For Maria Brewer, Deputy Head of Mission of the American Embassy in Nigeria, the country could pass as a second home for her. She has been here for five ye
United States Deputy Head of Mission, Maria Brewer has blamed cumbersome legal process and depth of investigations that have to be carried out to ensure equity and fairness to all parties for delays experienced in the repatriation of looted funds for developing countries, especially Nigeria.
She also listed “smartness” of looters and criminals who create all manner of hurdles and hide their loots in ways not too straight to deal with for the delays but assured that with legislations targeted at recovering such funds and the partnership of other bodies and countries, there would be no hiding place for looted funds.
On solution to the Niger Delta problem, she observed that nearly 20 years ago, the issue was on the front burner and had recently witnessed an upsurge. She regretted that there appeared no readymade answer or solution but advocated dialogue and engagement to restore peace to the region.
Brewer who spoke exclusively to THISDAY in Lagos denied official complicity for the protection of looted funds, pointing out that the USA had passed some legislations which ensured return of looted funds even when they were not hosted by the US but for the funds just passing through their territory
According to her, contrary to the notion that the looted funds were in a tagged bag that could be transported back to their countries of origin, most of the funds had even been invested in properties and into some legitimate businesses while some beneficiaries had what they felt were legitimate claims to keeping their part of the funds.
“It is a very cumbersome legal process; I know it is not necessarily exciting to think about the entire legal process that that it takes to return money. This is not a safe with a big bag with a dollar tag Abacha loot sitting somewhere but is not because some of that money may have been turned into property. It has been laundered and turned into businesses, turned into goods so it is not just a simple matter of reaching into a safe and saying okay, here is the money back. It is in the hands of individuals some of who have legal claims that they came by it legally or again some have several layers removed and removing that cannot be done automatically, some legal process have to be followed as the rights of those individuals, their rights are respected as well.
“It is difficult and not exciting to think about, involves a lot of lawyers and a lot of companies and law enforcement to go through a lot of documents and I know they are doing that work as we speak to determine where those monies came from, how do we remove it and how do we answer the claims of individual holdings and determine if they came by it honestly
“It is an incredible amount of work and I know it has been going on for years and unfortunately it has to go on, into sometime into the future but our desire is true, we intend to do all we can to return those monies and most of those monies are not in the US.”
You are rounding off your tour of duty in Nigeria. What has been your experience so far?
Sure, I arrived in August of 2013. So it has been like three years that I have been here and it has been an incredible three years of Nigeria’s history and I have been grateful and honoured to be able to witness it. In 2015, the country had an election, the first peaceful transition of power from one party to another. Some people had questioned if Nigeria would be able to achieve peaceful election. But it scaled that test in flying colours. Earlier that same year, we faced the scourge of Ebola which was terrifying. Glad to see the Nigerian government together with the private sector and with help of other international partners to overcome that and it had been wonderful. Nigeria has been declared polio-free, two years without wild polio virus case, so it has been an incredible three years and I have enjoyed it immensely. I have gone to other countries overseas. Not as much as I would have liked, but I am finishing three years in Nigeria which was mostly in Abuja. Of my 20 career years, I have spent a quarter of that in Nigeria. So it was like a homecoming for me in Lagos.
So what impression are you taking away about the people bearing in mind the stereotype outside this country?
I would say that Nigerians are some of the warmest, most vibrant entrepreneurial people on the planet. Of course there are bad people everywhere, fraudsters and so on, but that is not my experience on the part of Nigerians. They are generous, enthusiastic, devout and very firm in their beliefs. Resilient and entrepreneurial, I think those are the words that describe the average Nigerian. They face incredible hardships and a lot of hard situations and they don’t only survive but also thrive in those situations. I am privileged to be part of that. It has been fun in this country.
America would be marking 240 years of unbroken democratic rule next year and there have been hiccups here and there as it is said there is no perfect system anywhere. What has kept America going?
First, the biggest thing I think is our flexibility. Our constitution was written in 1787 almost immediately after, we passed the Bill of Rights and the first amendment to the constitution, recognising that that was not a perfect document. When that document was written, slavery was still legal and women could not vote. So throughout our history we have through the power of the people allowed change to adapt to society’s needs and we are seeing changes every day so it is not about taking history and not mired by history but able to adapt to times. If it was a 100 years ago, a woman like me from a minority population could not have been considered as a diplomat. That would have been impossible but here I am today in the US embassy in Nigeria as a diplomat. So I think that has been key to our success to adapt to change.
From your experience, do you think importing a democratic system from advanced countries and practising same without adaptation can give good results especially in third world or developing countries?
It is not all that abstract but I will say that of all governmental systems in the globe today, democracy is the best. It allows that flexibility and it also allows the people to make their voices heard and to reflect on their needs. So I would say democracy, no matter any level of development, any society could benefit from it and would benefit from it which is why we are supporting it so strongly throughout the world.
You visited the Internally Displaced Peoples’ Camps, and had firsthand experience of the situation. Can you give us an assessment of the situation in the camps?
Certainly! As I am sure you know over 2 million people are displaced here in Nigeria and most of them, about 91 per cent, are not living in a formal camp but are rather living in informal camps; being hosted by communities throughout the country. In fact, I visited somewhere some months ago here in Lagos along the Lagos Peninsula where an entire village from the north-east had moved down here; several hundreds of people living by the grace of other fellow Nigerians from another tribe, from another religion and from another ethnicity but still being welcomed and accepted and given shelter and refuge. That has been very touching to see and I am very happy to see Nigerians welcoming other Nigerians in their homes.
We are working with government to try and end the scourge of Boko Haram. They are terrible blood thirsty evil organisation and we have been supporting Nigerian government to eradicate them. In the meantime, we are also helping with IDP support with humanitarian aids, education and healthcare for those in the camps. It has a big challenge for Nigerian government, private organisations as
well as the international community. Civil society groups are pulling together a lot of resources in order to resolve but unfortunately, I don’t think there will be easy answer even as we see the military taking more and more ground from Boko Haram. Seeing the incredible devastation of the north-east, those who have been displaced would not be able to return home easily. But we are looking at the support we can come up with even as the federal government is taking the lead on this issue. I think they are stepping up and taking that role.
Can you quantify what your country has put into the effort?
Through USAID, we have invested over $137 million in the north-east, $18 million for humanitarian assistance and $15 million educational activities for schools that are too far behind. I know we are working with transition initiative and the state governments to try to increase visibility of government to the populace. What we found in domestic insurgency is people feeling separated from the government and that is something the recruiters are using to try to gather more supporters by saying your government doesn’t care about you. So we are trying to work with the federal and state governments to visibly show government action and support so that is the thing we take very seriously and we are also working with the UN, other donors, DFID and the EU to make sure we are working in concert under the umbrella of the Nigerian government to make sure we meet the needs but for the short term we meet the humanitarian needs like food, aid, education and healthcare for those in the camps and those not in the camps and to in the long run, we help the displaced return to their homes.
Do you think we are any nearer to seeing these displaced people returning to their homes?
I think it depends. We hear every day of more and more local government areas being liberated and we are learning that the police are returning to more and more of Borno State and state and local governments are taking control again. But there is a lot more areas that are in dispute or not secured so people are not yet feeling safe enough to return home so I think the refugees themselves would know when it is safe to return home because I know they want to return home; they are the ones, in many ways, who are able to determine when it is safe for them based on what they are hearing from their neighbours and friends. We want to help people return home but ideally they will return home when they feel they are safe to do so.
We have a bipolar problem presently: Boko Haram in the North East and militancy in the Niger Delta. Would your government support any marshal plan towards the development of these areas in solving the problem of militancy and Boko Haram?
Well, I may have to find out more about the phrase marshal plan because I think it is one of those words that mean different things to different persons. I prefer to think in terms of what would be the plans and programmes to support development, to support long term engagement and to support a system where the people feel they have been hurt by the government and they have access to justice, access to educational opportunities, access to development opportunities and to entrepreneurship opportunities and all kind of ways they can make life worth living which is the expectations of human beings to make the family stronger. Those are the type of programmes we have been supporting and will continue to support. Again, the Nigerian government has been a good partner for us and has been working with us on these issues and we will look for ways to partner and make that stronger. I know we have done a lot on those.
In case of the Niger Delta, you said you have been doing a lot of support programmes yet militancy persisted. What do you think is the panacea to this problem?
It is such a problem in Nigeria that I don’t know if anyone has easy solutions. I know that when I came here in 1996, militancy in the Niger Delta was an issue and here I am 20 years on, still the same issue going on. So I don’t think there is going to be any easy answer. It will be unfortunately a long process and we are encouraging everyone to deal with these issues using rule of law, using negotiations, words and not violence.
Lately we have seen a lot of agitations almost from all regions of the country. From the South-east, you see Movement for the Actualisation of the Sovereign State of Biafra and Indigenous People of Biafra; in the Niger Delta, the Avengers and other groups while in the South-west, the Oduduwa Republic advocates and Arewa advocates in the North for self actualisation. Taking the US as a bastion of human rights, do you think they should be given their dreams which will balkanise Nigeria?
I think the future of Nigeria is up to Nigerians; they are the ones who will determine what their beliefs are. I think that this country is such a plurality of religions, of ethnic groups of tribes, different backgrounds. It is also like that in our country. I think it is the strength of a society when you can accept the minority population in a society and treat them with respect; when you can hear their grievances, deal with difficulties and come through the other side of that again using the rule of law legitimately as well as the courts. That is the strength of a society. Like in my country, that is one of the strengths we have. Nigeria had a terrible civil war with much devastation. They determined that remaining united was in their best interest and I know Nigeria about 50 years ago made that self-determination so I would hope that Nigerians would continue to see their plurality, their differences, uniqueness and society of members as part of their strength. Your differences do not have to divide you; they are going to be part of your strengths which you can even draw from.
From your perspective as someone who has dispassionately watched from the sidelines, what do you think are responsible for these agitations?
Well, in some ways when people are able to voice-liberate themselves, that is not necessarily a bad thing. We see these in places where some voices have been repressed. You say everything is fine but it is not. You are just repressing. The same thing in Nigeria. You are repressed and you have the feeling to speak openly. I don’t think just because people are complaining, voicing their problems that means the society is failing, it means society is strong enough to bear the different viewpoints. I don’t see that as weakness; I see that as a show of strength. if we are going to do that in a peaceful way using rule of law, using the ballot box, voting, using your representatives in office to represent you. Those are good things and democracy is loud, it is noisy and sometimes a bit disorganised but one of the tenets of democracy is that you hear the voices of the people and it is not always unified.
Some people are saying under their fundamental rights they have a right to self-determination. Can calling for the dismemberment of a country be protected under human rights?
I don’t necessarily see those two things as one. I think they are crossing two different topics. I think human rights do allow people to share their opinions and share their views. That is fundamental human rights; being able to speak openly about your experiences. I think ultimately Nigerians have to determine what the future of their country would be; how it will look 20, 100 years from now. That is what Nigerians could do again through the legitimate use of the ballot box.
Earlier on, you had said Nigeria had been collaborating with your government to tackle Boko Haram which you described as blood thirsty, evil organisation. But when Nigeria, in its time of need, wanted your country to supply weapons with which the insurgency could have been contained, that was refused. Why?
Well, I can’t speak of on any purchase or
Well, in some ways when people are able to voice-liberate themselves, that is not necessarily a bad thing. We see these in places where some voices have been repressed. You say everything is fine but it is not. You are just repressing. The same thing in Nigeria. You are repressed and you have the feeling to speak openly. I don’t think just because people are complaining, voicing their problems that means the society is failing, it means society is strong enough to bear the different viewpoints. I don’t see that as weakness; I see that as a show of strength
I am sure criminals are very entrepreneurial as well; criminals are very creative. I am sure they will look for any means and any loophole to exploit the weakness in a system which is why we spent a lot of time trying to strengthen those systems with our international partners. Just to close those loopholes and to close those doors but criminals are smart too. We just have to be on our toes to find them where they are
request. I am not able to do that but what I can say is that we have been supporting Nigeria with equipment and training. We are currently training a third battalion of Nigerian troops where our expert trainers are giving them their best in terms of tactics and how to defeat the enemy. We have donated MRAPs vehicles that could withstand mine attacks and we have donated coast guard crafts for the Nigerian Navy. We are selling items to the Nigerian government. Every sale, every training, every interaction we must meet Lehi’s law that requires us to review any sort of military training or sale or donation against the human rights record of that group of people and we take that seriously and we don’t spare any letter of the law and that is why we want to enhance the ability of any military to be able to deal with the citizens in a respectful way that recognises human rights. I know it is important we draw all these comparisons but the truth is that despite the situation we have our eyes on the future.
In one of the books written by Winston Churchill, Bodyguard of Lies, he said truth is so precious you have to surround it with Bodyguard of Lies and that once war is declared moderation amounts to idiocy. So how do you weigh protection of rights of people who are mass killers in a war situation like Nigeria faces?
This is what we believe very deeply that we have shared with your leaders at all levels, both civilians military, from the highest office in the land and down. It is that protection of civilians and respect for human rights is not detrimental when you are fighting an insurgency, particularly domestic insurgency. The two actually go hand in glove. When you respect human rights of your own population, you rob the insurgent of the ability to use that as a tactic.
Do we say that you have seen that now and that is the reason you are agreeing to supply the weapons like some attack aircraft are being sold to Nigeria now?
We started the training programme with the army under the previous administration. Some of the donations we have done were under the previous administration. So I wouldn’t say it has changed dramatically than in the past. All I will say is our relationship is strengthening in many facets; we are always looking for a close relationship with the Nigerian government and with the Nigerian military. So I think it is a relationship that is on the upswing which is a good thing but I wouldn’t have to draw it in black and white terms but we have been working better for a long time and would continue to work better for a long time in the future.
Some skeptics are of the view that your country only donated disused and refurbished equipment to Nigeria in its fight against terrorism instead of selling state of the art weapons to us. What’s your response to that?
We don’t have problems with that because the Excess Defence Articles, EDA, and those articles that are no longer used by the US military, they are free which means they are accepted in the conditions they are and for the cost of shipping. It is what it is, the price is free and I know the Nigerian government and military have done procurements of advanced weaponry and very soon we are again working with them in general and I think our support has been strong and will continue to be strong. I reject any accusation the items are not useful. The Nigerian government accepts them, they see need for them and it is something we are happy to do and they are happy to receive it so it is a positive not a negative.
There is this allegation that your country is only moved by its economic interest in policy formulations especially with the third world where Nigeria belongs. What is your response to that?
I reject that whole-heartedly. I mean certainly you can look at our contributions to this country that we discussed few moments ago. Hundreds of millions of dollars being given not only in the northeast but also to eradicate polio, reduce HIV, to increase literacy, to increase good governance and these are things that are good for the prosperity of the world, not just America. Our goal is a more secure, more democratic, more prosperous global village not just our country. I will reject that and I think that America is among the most giving, most generous people on the planet. I can speak for myself as a diplomat. We are not motivated by money; we are motivated by our desire to serve our country and represent the values of America to the rest of the world and certainly I am paid. I am a paid employee but that is not my main motivation. My main motivation is how do I represent the world to America and how I represent America to the world? I think I have enjoyed it.
One wonders why all this assistance to Nigeria is not in technical/ technological areas that can make her develop and compete globally. You talk about human rights but that would not make the country compete globally and be technically competitive?
I will disagree with the premise of the question, Nigeria is globally competitive. Nigeria is one of the most entrepreneurial nations. Right now, we have a global entrepreneurial summit in California and Nigerians have the highest number of applications and 22 of them are at this event and to say Nigerians are not globally competitive is giving the impression of what Nigeria is not. Is it in the medicine? In the arts? Educational fields? Nigerians really are in the fore-front of all that. So I think our desire is more openness, more competition and more exchanges.
We take the US as having zero tolerance for corruption but incidentally when funds are looted they are channeled to all these advanced countries sloganeering anti-corruption and they host the money and even when the monies are traced, to repatriate them becomes almost impossible. For example the Abacha loot is yet to be returned fully. Why is this so?
It is a very cumbersome legal process. I know it is not necessarily exciting to think about the entire legal process that it takes to return money. This is not a safe with a big bag with a dollar tag Abacha loot sitting somewhere but because some of that money may have been turned into property, laundered and turned into businesses and into goods. So it is not just a simple matter of reaching into a safe and saying okay, here is the money; take it back. Some legal processes have to be followed as the rights of those individuals (who claim ownership of the monies) are respected as well. It is difficult and not exciting to think about; it involves a lot of lawyers and a lot of companies and law enforcement to go through a lot of documents and I know they are doing that work as we speak to determine where those monies came from, how do we remove them and how do we answer the claims of individual holdings and determine if they came by them honestly. It is an incredible amount of work and I know it has been going on for years and unfortunately it has to go on into sometime into the future but our desire is true. We intend to do all we can to return those monies and most of those monies are not in the US. We are using money laundering laws we have passed to seize and freeze assets that have passed through the US and also we are using several international agreements but a lot of them are not in the US but we are reaching out globally to our partners across the globe to find, freeze and return the assets and that is our intention; that is our desire but it won’t happen overnight.
Panama papers revealed a place that was intentionally created as tax haven to host such stolen assets?
I am sure criminals are very entrepreneurial as well; criminals are very creative. I am sure they will look for any means and any loophole to exploit the weakness in a system which is why we spent a lot of time trying to strengthen those systems with our international partners. Just to close those loopholes and to close those doors but criminals are smart too. We just have to be on our toes to find them where they are.
So you don’t think there is an official stamp or an intentional look away from the loopholes that make it possible for the criminals to exploit?
Absolutely not. Again our desire, our policy and our goals are to punish the wrong doers and return the right properties to Nigerians. That is what we are doing and it will happen but unfortunately, just not overnight.