Gaoshubelwe: That must be clear

“It is very unfortunate that some of the teams have started with that.”

“I can assure players and everybody that we are there.”

We have heard about rumours of clubs contemplating salary cuts at both the GladAfrica Championship and the Absa Premiership. In addition, we have also heard about players having to adapt to the new norm and follow the training programmes given out by their respective clubs, as the Coronavirus has seen to it that no group training takes place, what with social distancing having to be adhered to. But what has the institution that prides itself on safeguarding the interests of the players, the

South African Football Players Union, been up to during this time? What discussions have been going on behind the scenes between them and the different role-players in the game to ensure the safety and livelihood of players is put at the forefront? What’s the organization’s view on returning to the field and finishing the 2019/20 season? Soccer Laduma’s Beaver Nazo sought clarity from SAFPU President, Thulaganyo Gaoshubelwe, on these and other related matters.

Beaver Nazo: Thulaganyo, it wouldn’t be proper to start this interview without talking about the recent sad demise of former Golden Arrows captain, Nkanyiso Mngwengwe.

Thulaganyo Gaoshubelwe: Let me start by passing our sincere, deepest condolences to Golden Arrows, his immediate family, his friends, the community and all football-loving people. We have lost a young man who was a good player. We expected to see more from him, but God had other plans. He passes on at a very difficult period where the economy is down and families are finding it very tough because they are facing retrenchments because of COVID-19. Even funerals have restrictions. I am sure the entire community and football fraternity would have liked to attend his send-off. It is so unfortunate and may his soul rest in peace. He has done what he had to do. Having said all that, our dream was that when we finally return to play, it will be all of us back on the field of play doing what we love but, unfortunately, it is now a fact that we will return without one of our players. There is a song, Asiphelelanga, but we will find strength in the contribution that he made to football while he was still alive.

BN: This must be a challenging time for the South African Football Players Union, with the players having last been in action in mid-March. What has been taking place behind the scenes to ensure that their best interests are taken care of?

TG: We are faced with these unprecedented challenges and FIFA has issued a COVID-19 document, which is recommendations and guidelines. One of the recommendations says parties must sit down and talk about

the solution and what it is that needs to happen going forward. I can confirm to you that currently we are at a stage where there are discussions taking place on how and when we can go back to play. Are we going to play now? Are we going to play tomorrow? Or are we going to play next year? However, fundamental are the two important issues that we as the Union have put out: the issue of health as well as the issue of livelihood. Those two are intertwined and trying to deal with one and not dealing with the other is not possible. We wish it was simple where we can say we have to stop everything, but stopping everything does not stop the contracts that are running, which improve the livelihood of the players. Going back to play does not secure the lives, safety and health of the players either. Anything can happen. Now you can see how complex this issue is. Given the situation, we have called for cool heads and we said let us look at what can be done. We have made a submission that we as SAFPU are saying players want to play, players are ready to play even if they are asked to do so tomorrow. However, we must comply with the Act in terms of occupational health and safety. We cannot do anything that is outside the Act and the players understand that. That is why they say if there is compliance with the Act, we can wake up tomorrow and say, “Let us go play.” Players’ safety must come first. We cannot allow a situation that will compromise players’ safety to happen.

BN: What does the Act really say?

TG: When you look at the Occupational Act, Section 8, Section 21 and 24, in particular Section 8, it says the employer should ensure that the safety of the employee is taken care of. Very important. Now, what does safety of an employee mean in the COVID-19 time? Now, we are saying if those two things are taken care of (safety and livelihood of players), we will definitely support the players returning to work. There must be work that is done to make sure of those two before anything. We must say where the testing is going to take place and so forth. We are not experts when it comes to issues of health, but of course, we have a view and our view is solely based on what needs to be expected, like who must make sure that the players’ safety is taken care of. We are part of those discussions and we are happy to be part of those discussions so that we can then express the views of the players and make sure that all measures are put in place. I know that some people are saying that Germany has resumed the league, so why are we not playing? We appreciate that, but we cannot copy and paste. We have to know the demographics of what is happening in South Africa in order to come up with a solution that is proper for South Africans and the scenario of the country’s situation.

BN: Some PSL clubs, like Cape Town City, Royal Eagles and Cape Umoya United, have effected salary cuts, which vary in percentage, with City confirming 30 to 100 % cuts, Eagles 40% and Umoya 50%. How do you view this as SAFPU?

TG: Look, people must understand that players are alive to the realities that are brought on by COVID-19. The players know that COVID-19 has affected the economy and they know that COVID-19 will affect football because they are not playing now. In the same breath, though, players know that the league is still paying grants to their respective teams. Also, players do understand that you need to sit down as a club and negotiate because they have contracts with them and when you have a contract, you don’t just do. You first sit down and negotiate. It is very unfortunate that some of the teams have started with that because the Basic Employment Act is clear that an employer cannot deduct any money from an employee without the consent of that employee. To an extent that there are going to be deductions, the agreement must be in writing. That is what we are saying. In the possibilities of retrenchments and salary cuts, we have made this point. The employer should then be able to say, “Beaver, I have challenges and, therefore, I will not be able to pay your money and I will have to make some salary cuts.” But you do not do that three days before (payday). You don’t do it 10 days before. You allow time for a consultation process. That process (of consultation) doesn’t mean we have an agreement – that must be clear. If I am your boss and you’re playing for Thulaganyo FC, the team must make available the information that will enable you to make a decision.

BN: What kind of information is that, if we may ask?

TG: Well, what that means is that as an employer – a club boss, in this instance – I must say before COVID19, my cash flow was about R20 000, for example, but now it has been impacted badly by COVID-19. The salary bill was R5 000 and it’s impacted and now it is R2 000; my cash flow, which now includes other things you need to do, is about R12 000. Now the question is: how do you as a player validate that? Well, as a boss, I must provide you with that information that validates what I am saying. You must see that as a boss, I am telling you the truth and there is a crisis. Then the player must think, can he agree to the cut? Say, can I agree to a 20 percent cut? By the way, by law, you cannot take over 25 percent of someone’s salary unless you have pressing or special circumstances for you to do that. You must be able to say, “It is fine, we can agree to you taking 10 percent”, but that money you will have to give back to me at some point. You may pay me 15 percent less, but I want all that money before the end of next season, if the player will still have a contract, or I want it all in December once everything gets back to normal, if the player’s contract will come to an end. Players will make agreements and, yes, it is appropriate to do so because they have financial responsibilities. Once you cut his salary in the last moths of his contract, you might be setting the player back big time and tomorrow Beaver will write about that player and say, “Thulaganyo had all the money”, forgetting that at some point there was a salary cut and I had made plans for that money. When you cut that money, it impacts negatively on the player’s plans.

BN: What do you then do in a situation where all this happens and the player gets a raw deal?

TG: Let me start by thanking clubs who continue honouring the contracts of their players by paying them their full salaries during this tough time. We do the process of engagement and because there is a contract in place and there is a clause in the contract that speaks things like cutting the money or terminating the contract. It must be there. We are busy with the clubs in helping them to resolve such issues, and it is very important for us to do that.

BN: The PSL and SAFA have elected a task team to try and come up with a solution and way forward regarding these issues.

TG: Last week there was a meeting

of the joint liaison committee, which is a structure within the PSL and SAFA. The meeting required both parties to meet because it is a constitutional matter. At this stage, we are not part of that meeting because we have not reached an agreement with the parties that are engaged in that meeting, but it is provided in the football rules for them to be there. Having said that, we do have a bargaining agreement and we do have a working relationship with SAFA. Before the liaison committee meeting that they sat recently, we had a meeting with SAFA and we had a meeting with the PSL and we expressed our position to them, to say these are the issues that must be taken into consideration and we made submissions. I am sure we will receive a report of what the outcome of the meeting was and, going forward, we are hoping that we will be part and parcel of these important football structures to the extent that they involve the players because you cannot leave them out of the issues that are related to them. That is where we are right now. I can assure players and everybody that we are there and we have shared our submissions and expressed our views. On the 17th of March, we presented our view, which was in line with the postponing of all football activities. We are looking forward to being more involved. We are busy now looking at all possibilities, like, as the league is stopped now, what is going to happen to contracts? What is going to happen to football after COVID-19? Therefore, we still need to sit down and agree to a process because we cannot copy and paste what they do in South Korea and Germany, as they have resumed playing in those countries. So, once we see that the players are safe, football will be played again.

BN: What is the role of intermediaries, more commonly known as player agents, and have you engaged with them?

TG: The unfortunate part is that some of the agents might have already agreed to the salary cuts, according to the information we have received from some of the players. I think it is very important for us to sit with them and discuss these things. We are not going to prescribe to them what is going to happen, but we believe that sanity will prevail where the players will say, “Manager, this is what is going to happen”, because we always express that the players should lead the way when it comes to the things that will have an impact on their careers. We want to see those discussions held where players and agents agree to what must happen. We are hopeful that we will solve this salary cutting (issue), but seeing that we might be going beyond June, we need to talk a different story. We need to sit down and see what we can do … even with the UIF, what it can do for the players. We have to make sure that everyone plays open cards and players are in the know.

BN: Are all PSL players registered members of SAFPU, and if there are those who are not affiliates, do you also represent them?

TG: Well, players sign membership cards to be part of the Union as required by the Labour Law. You cannot represent people without them giving you the right. They become members of the organization after signing the forms. Well, not all the players are members of the Union and we would like that to change. We are representing all players because by us representing Thulaganyo, Beaver also benefits, which is why I am saying we are representing all the players. I would maybe call it representing them by default. We do go and recruit, though, but unfortunately, all that has been halted by COVID-19.

BN: Thulaganyo, thank you for giving us a better understanding of what the South African Football Players Union has been up to since the lockdown began.

TG: The pleasure is all ours. ❐