He didn’t allow me to do my job

“He saw me as an enemy rather than a co-worker.”

“He got upset and he started swearing at me.”

Ever since his shock comments after Marumo Gallants beat Futuro Kings 3-0, overcoming a 2-1 deficit from the first leg and ensuring progression to the next round of the CAF Confederation Cup, comments which hinted at an exit, it was only a matter of time before Sebastien Migné parted ways with the club. “The second round, it will be another challenge against Vita Club, one of the best teams in Africa. They achieved two finals of the Champions League in the last 10 years, so it will not be easy. Afterwards, we will see … it’s with me or without me - I don’t know,” he blurted. Unbeknown to many at the time, it could have been an indirect expression of unhappiness at the Limpopo-based outfit appointing Harris Choeu two months earlier as technical director, a title viewed by many as coach-in-waiting. Indeed, as things unravelled, it came to light that the duo did not enjoy the best of working relationships, and matters came to a head when the Frenchman allegedly hurled abuse at “TV4” in full view of other technical team members and the players. Migné was dismissed following a disciplinary hearing, and in this interview with Soccer Laduma’s Tshepang Mailwane, the cool-asa-cucumber Choeu lifts the lid on how things unfolded and why the coach’s refusal to co-operate did not give him sleepless nights.

Tshepang Mailwane: Hello, Mr. Choeu. We had not seen you in the PSL for a while until your appointment at Marumo Gallants before the start of the current season. Hey, man, where have you been?

Harris Choeu: Thanks for the opportunity. Before I arrived at Gallants, I was at home doing a few things. I was busy with academies, trying to groom boys so that they can one day play professional football. But before that, I was at (Mamelodi) Sundowns. Things at the academy were going well because we would start (developing) the boys from a very early age. I was also helping some teams around myarea.

TM: Did you not miss working for a club in the topflight?

HC: No. Remember I started playing around 1980 when I was at Seshego Saints. Then, from there, I never stopped until around 2015/16. So, it was a long time in the game of football and during that time, my family needed me. You can imagine that I never had a chance to be with my family all those years. During my time, I used to work and play football. I remember when I was at (Witbank)

Aces, I was a teacher and I was playing professional football at the same time. When I went to Sundowns, I was at university for almost five years. After that, I went to be a lecturer at one of the teachers’ colleges and I was still a player. Later on, I joined the Department of Education as an education specialist and I was still a player. So, all this time I never had a rest. That’s why I decided to see life from the other side of the world. The kids missed me and they needed this and that, but I was always not at home. I could see my wife was struggling alone because every week I was away and you miss out on fatherhood. I missed out on fatherhood big time. I’ve got a girl and boy and you can see that the boy needed the presence of a father at a younger age.

TM: So, what made you decide to make a return and why Marumo Gallants?

HC: They came to me and asked if I was not interested and I said yes. I am originally from Limpopo, so I saw it as an opportunity to work in a province that I left in the ’80s. I used to come for two or three days, so I also saw this as an opportunity to connect with the ancestors. I also thought, with the position I have, it’s better to start at a club that’s building so that you grow together with the team. We will make mistakes, but as long as we have the key things that we need to help us sustain our status in the topflight…

TM: What does your role as technical director entail?

HC: Firstly, I decide the philosophy of football at the club. I decide the system of play and I also look into the training sessions. We design training sessions based on our next games. But I have just started doing my job properly now because the previous coach (Sebastien Migné) could not allow me to do my job. I just started the real job I am here for after the coach left. And I am proud that after starting, we won the game against AS Vita (in the CAF Confederation Cup). We had problems with our previous coach. He took me as something else. He did not allow me to do my job. When we wanted to do post-match analysis, he did not want to because he thought postmatch analysis was to criticise him. It was not like that. We wanted to look at our faults to rectify them so that we do not repeat them. If we don’t score goals, we should know

why we are not scoring. We sit down and come up with ways. I don’t impose anything, but we all sit down and discuss and use all our information on how we can utilize the same players we have to start scoring goals. But he would not do it. That’s why he had two points in five games, which was not good enough.

TM: Seems like it was a strained relationship between you and Migné…

HC: Our relationship was not okay. He saw me as an enemy rather than a co-worker. I get paid to be a technical director. When we don’t get results, I don’t have to wait until we fail. I was supposed to have intervened before, but we felt that because he is a foreigner, we should give him time to learn and know the players. That’s why we gave him the assistants and that’s why I am here, so that we could help him. I even gave them a list of my responsibilities so that they could see that I was within my line.

TM: Do you feel he undermined you?

HC: He would refuse to co-operate. Fortunately, when we were readmitted to (international) football, a lot of the coaches flocked into our country. So, the same thing

he was doing was not different to the things the previous coaches did. I was with (Orlando) Pirates and we had French coaches – they behaved the same and when I see South African clubs now prioritizing local coaches, they know what happened. So, Marumo Gallants is a young team and they still have to know so that later they can take the right direction. I’ve got nothing against foreigners, but most of our teams have realised that we have to go that route. He was not co-operating. But he never said anything wrong, except that incident that happened at the airport.

TM: What happened at the airport?

HC: We were speaking about other things that were not football-related. He got upset and he started swearing at me. That was it.

TM: This was in front of the players and technical team?

HC: The technical team was there and some of the other players were not far from the incident. I could see that he was taking out his frustrations.

TM: How did that whole thing make you feel? HC: As I said, I have had experience with them. I worked with (Jean-Yves) Kerjean at Pirates and others from different countries. I have that experience, so I was not bothered. I did not make noise or do all these things. I know that these things happen in football. That’s why there was no physical fighting because I just backed off.

TM: What’s the plan with the coaching role at the club since the Frenchman’s departure?

HC: At the moment, I have been helping coach (Mpho) Maleka and our (DStv) Diski Challenge coach David Mathebula. So, the coaches and I are working, and we are going to fight this battle until the management decides otherwise. And it will be the results that decide things, if they bring somebody or they leave us as we are. But I am still the technical director. When I was at Sundowns, we used to go to England. We’d go in November and come back in January and we would spend time at Chelsea with (Jose) Mourinho and at Manchester United with Sir Alex Ferguson, (Carlos) Queiroz and their coaching team. We’d go to Tottenham (Hotspur) and Fulham. Just as Sundowns are doing with having coaches all working as a unit, they are doing that in Europe. Ferguson would have, like, five other coaches working with him. These people were working like doctors who were working on an operation. Each training session was planned by those people. Sometimes the ideas are overruled by the team when they are in meetings and all that. Someone might come up with better ideas. Sundowns is doing it at the moment, but because we are not used to it, we see it differently. That’s what we are trying to do here. We cannot take the responsibility of a team with a big investment and put it into one person’s ideas alone. He is a human being. If he makes a mistake, the whole ship sinks. Some people are equally qualified to be coaches, and they will put some ideas and help because you can’t see everything. You are human and you can’t see everything, so the people around you can see those other things and help you.

TM: Do you think we don’t quite understand the role of a technical director in South Africa because most of the time you are seen as people who are there to take the coach’s job?

HC: I know that. Before, we did not have this portfolio. Many people do not understand it. Many coaches think that technical directors are there to take their jobs or to disturb them from working. I’m not surprised there was a problem with the French guy. We left Sebastien to do his work, until we saw that we cannot leave it like that. It was not giving us results.

TM: Now that the team has put his departure in the past, what are the targets? HC: Remember, with us, we don’t buy players. I feel we are working hard to compete, so we are trying to do our best

and we can see that we are coming along. We know that it’s not going to be easy and it’s not going to be fast. It will take some time. We are trying to make them the best and compete with the best. It’s a big challenge, but things will be good.

TM: Thank you very much for your time, “TV4”. Hopefully you guys turn things around and get the team winning games. Good luck in the second leg of the CAF Confederation Cup second preliminary round match against AS Vita on Friday!

HC: Thank you for the opportunity. ❐