That’s part of the problem
“We started these discussions a year ago and then it really sort of picked up.”
As per co-coach Manqoba Mngqithi, it was important that Ronwen Williams is thrown into the fray as early as possible, and so far into his life as a Mamelodi Sundowns player, in the three games he’s started so far, he’s acquitted himself well between the sticks. However, competing with Denis Onyango, Kennedy Mweene and Reyaad Pieterse for
that number one jersey, one of the Tshwane giants’ marquee signings of the current transfer window will know that there is no time to relax. But just how did the move happen and why did the Gqeberhaborn goalkeeper choose the Brazilians, as he was said to also be on the radar of Orlando Pirates? Shortly after concluding the big transfer, his agent, Rob Moore, explains more about the blockbuster move in this interview with Soccer Laduma’s Delmain Faver.
Delmain Faver: Mr Moore, congrats on recently completing the Ronwen Williams to Mamelodi Sundowns deal. Please give us the inside scoop on the move.
Rob Moore: Yeah. I think Ronwen is an absolute rare, rare breed. There’s not any players nowadays who started at a club at 12 years old and end up staying for 18 years. It’s very, very rare in football these days and that is part of the legend that they will write on his eulogy or whatever it’s called when somebody dies and then they write about the memories that they have of you. A part of Ronnie’s legacy will be his loyalty and he was exceptionally loyal to SuperSport (United), but as much as he was loyal, they also treated him well throughout all the years, so that must be said. And, of course, SuperSport was there and thereabouts on numerous occasions for the trophies, but about a year ago, he started thinking about what’s next and that’s when we first sort of had meetings with Stan Matthews (CEO) and the guys at SuperSport and we said, ‘Listen, maybe it’s an opportunity and time for Ronnie to think about the next chapter’, and the club was always, and Stan in particular, very supportive. He just wanted to have one more season out of Ronnie and because… you know, it was a big emotional thing for Stan and SuperSport – that’s their captain, absolutely the shining light of what their academy has produced, and for them to lose a player like that, that meant so much for them and was a big thing that they had to come to terms with and so, they wanted some time just to be able to prepare for this day that’s now come about. So, we started these discussions a year ago and then it really sort of picked up. It was a discussion at that point and then it picked up momentum more, sort of May, around that time. On the player’s terms, it was all agreed between Ronnie and (Mamelodi) Sundowns already about two months ago and then it just really was a time that the two clubs had to come together and they had to then, you know, haggle a little bit and they were negotiating backwards and forwards, backwards and forwards, and eventually it got over the line.
DF: There was talk he was eyeing a European move as well as interest from the MLS...
RM: It’s something, periodically, that we looked at, but you know, the times that we’re living in now in South African football are very different to the late ’90s, early in the 2000s when quite a few South Africans went and transferred abroad. Not so many South Africans are moving abroad now, which is for a number of factors. Number one, the players are better remunerated now than they were in the past. The second reason is that the national team has fallen a little bit out of the limelight and when you see Mo Salah doing what he’s doing for Liverpool, then a spotlight will go on Egypt, you know, and they will say, ‘Well, what is the quality of players that this country is producing?’ Consistently, we’ve seen it in West Africa. You know, Samuel Eto’o… these kinds of guys have been sort of walking ambassadors for the West African nations and that’s why now, consistently, the European clubs go and look for the talent in West Africa as well. South Africa, sadly, has fallen a little bit off the radar and that’s just a result of national teams not qualifying for World Cups, in some cases not even qualifying for Nations Cups. So, it’s not that easy. You don’t see that many transfers happening. The question you then ask yourself with a guy like Ronwen is, ‘Okay, Ronnie, we can get you to a league or a club X and then you got to weigh up (and ask) is that club X going to have the kind of transfer fee that Sundowns were able to have to buy him now? Is club X going to be able to give him a salary anywhere near what he’s earning at Sundowns? It’s all very well saying, ‘Well, I want to go play overseas’, but the reality is you may end up earning less than what you could earn in South Africa, and the clubs that you can maybe realistically transfer to, they can’t afford the transfer fee. So, it’s a challenge to move South Africans to Europe at the moment. It’s not easy. I’m not saying it can’t be done, but I think… just look around and you’ll see, there’s not many transfers happening to Europe as frequently as in the past.
DF: Makes sense.
RM: Well, let me tell you, there is another factor and I’ll give you an example. We moved a player from Ausmonths tralia who, four ago, turned 18 years old. So, he only turned 18 in April, but already, he had played over 60 matches in the A-League in Australia. At 18 years old, 60 games! Then there’s a Japanese boy that was signed up now, he’s 18. He’s already played 70 matches in the J-League in Japan. I mean, you must remember that the J-League in Japan, for example, has a history of many successful exports. So, when you’re 18, and you’ve played 70 games, clubs in Europe look at that and they say, ‘Wow, this kid must have something!’ He captains his country at U20, he’s played U17 and he’s already, at 18 years old, got 70 games in the J-League, and that’s what gets clubs in Europe interested because football has become so advanced that clubs have got software packages that scour the internet and they will flag up names of players, particularly younger players who start playing firstteam football at a young age. So, they will flag up a debut of a young player. Maybe a guy’s 16 and he ends up making his debut. Maybe by the time he’s 17, he’s played 15 or 20 games in a first team of a particular country and in a parThose ticular league. are the kinds of things that clubs then sit up and take notice (of) and say, ‘This can be interesting.’ I mean, if we had to look at the PSL today, we were just talking about this with Ronnie. Ronnie made his debut at 19 and by 20 years old, I think he was a regular at SuperSport. To be a goalkeeper and be a regular at such a young age is remarkable. I mean, it doesn’t often happen, you know. But now, if you look at today in the PSL, I don’t think you could name me three or four players who are 17 and 18 and have played between 20 and 50 PSL matches. I stand to be corrected, but I would be very surprised if you could give me three or four names of players that are under 18 years old and they’ve made 30 or 40 appearances in a PSL team. I don’t think it exists. Unfortunately, we in South Africa tend to refer to someone as a great young talent, but he’s maybe 23 or 24 already. That’s not young, and that’s part of the problem. Until more clubs adopt an attitude of giving young players a chance, you won’t see much transfer activity happening between South Africa and Europe, in particular.
DF: There were also strong rumours about Orlando Pirates. RM: I would say (it is) very important that he signed for Mamelodi Sundowns. I don’t want to talk about clubs that may or may not have been interested, who may or may not have made an offer because I don’t feel that’s respectful towards the clubs. I think the only thing that counts is that he’s joined Sundowns and Ronnie will know what clubs were interested in him. I will know that, but it’s not something I would like to publicly discuss because, as I say, I just don’t think it would be respectful to all the parties. mean for Williams? There’s also life after football to think about…
RM: Yeah, it’s an interesting question that you raise. You look at somebody like Steven (Pienaar). Steven was five-and-a-half to six years at Ajax (Amsterdam), he built up a following and an affection at the club. He spent, I think, a total of maybe eight years at Everton. When Steven finished playing, Everton made Steven Pienaar their first ever global ambassador and the club employed him and gave him a part-time contract where he was a global ambassador for the club, but that was because he had been there so long it built up a history and he was woven into the tapestry of the history of the club. Now Steven is working for the academy of Ajax Amsterdam, again, because in his five-and-a-half years, he was part of the tapestry of Ajax Amsterdam. So, coming back to Ronnie, I think he will always, always be woven into the tapestry of SuperSport United because if you look around today and you look at the players in the PSL, you ask yourself, how many players are we looking at in the PSL who, at this time, look like they are going to be known as legends? There aren’t that many, if you think about it.
DF: That’s true, sadly.
RM: At the end of the day, legends are created, like Benni (McCarthy), Steven, Lucas (Radebe), (Sibusiso) Zuma, Mark Fish, Neil Tovey and these kinds of guys. They were created based a lot on the exploits of the nabut tional team, now because the national team isn’t performing, there’s a different set of criteria that you would have to look and say who can become a legend? And I don’t think there’s that many around anymore that you would look at in the PSL and say, ‘Yeah, so-and-so is going to be known as a legend.’ Ronnie is part of… I wouldn’t like to say a dying breed because that’s not a good thing, but let’s just say Ronnie is part of a very small company of players in today’s age that are still playing, that you could comfortably say that when he stops playing, he will be known as a legend. So, I think coming back to what is Sundowns gonna do for his career, or what this transfer is going to do, I think a lot of that will be based on the level of success Sundowns will enjoy while he plays in it, you know. If he’s there for five, six, seven years because you’ve seen it with Kennedy (Mweene), you’ve seen it with Denis (Onyango), you know… these are guys in their late 30s that are playing still… If Ronnie has a career that can basically go on until 37
years old, and in that time Sundowns have maybe one or two more CAF Champions League (titles) and maybe they’ve gone to a Club World Cup and they’ve made a final of the Club World Cup, that then ensures that he will have a significant place in the his
tory of two clubs. ❐