I support Pirates with all my heart

“It was going to be havoc at church the following day.”

“I believe an Imbizo of these institutions is long overdue.”

Ethiopian Episcopal Church Archbishop, Nkosinathi Ngesi, is a staunch Orlando Pirates who makes no apologies about it. When an opportunity to sit down with Soccer Laduma editor Vuyani Joni to talk football presented itself, the Makhanda-based church leader was only happy to discuss his favourite team and talk about the banter that goes on in church. He also offers an apology to both Dr Irvin Khoza and Bucs head coach, Jose Riveiro. Read on to find out about the apologies… and more.

Vuyani Joni: Hello, Arch. We hope you’re doing well. It is not every day that we get someone of your stature to talk football, so we really appreciate you taking time off your busy schedule to talk to Soccer Laduma readers.

Nkosinathi Ngesi: It is only a pleasure and a privilege, VJ, to be featured in such big and wonderful soccer publication. So, I am honoured.

VJ: Those who know you from your days as a priest will remember your passion for sport, especially football. How has your love for the Beautiful Game been affected by your consecration as the Archbishop of Ethiopian Episcopal Church?

NN: Thanks so much for that question. As you know, I’ve loved football from the early days of my upbringing. I am a huge supporter of Orlando Pirates, for those who don’t know, and that’s been the case for as long as I can remember. Even when I was ordained as a priest 30 years ago, I remained in love with Pirates and South African football at large. To get back to your question, nothing has changed to this day. When I was elected as the Archbishop, three years ago, I remained a football person. When my team is not performing well, it affects my life in terms of the mood at home and even my general wellbeing, even my performance when it comes to my duties, but I’m a big boy now who can handle these things. I must admit, Pirates’ bad results used to affect me so much, especially psychologically, ha, ha, ha. My weekend would be spoiled, but I would always find comfort ecaweni (in church) because we mostly have Pirates and Kaizer Chiefs supporters. If one of the two teams wins and the other one loses, those with bad results will never hear the end of it. “We won, we don’t know about others” would be a statement thrown around and the message would get to the intended recipient. It is never nice when you’re on the receiving end, but we take it in good spirits.

VJ: Sportsmanship.

NN: Even at home, it is never nice when Pirates lose. We are all Pirates followers and the kids have no choice because it is our culture. Only my wife supports Chiefs in our home, but we know she doesn’t love or support Chiefs as much as we support Pirates, ha, ha, ha. Even the dogs are Pirates supporters in our home. As a result, we have a black and white dog, which goes to show how much we love our team and football. When it comes to the national team, whenever Bafana Bafana lose, we share the pain. The game (World Cup qualifier) we lost against Ghana, when Rushine De Reuck was adjudged to have committed a penalty, it affected all of us at home. I don’t think we cooked that day and that’s just how much we love our sport, especially football.

VJ: Do your congregants know which team you support in the DStv Premiership and how does that play itself out in church?

NN: They know and some of them know it from my days as a young priest because I always made it known. For us, it becomes banter and bragging rights whenever our team wins, especially against our archrivals. Look, when we were going to play Mamelodi Sundowns, one of the teams that always give us good competition, in the first leg of the MTN8, there was a lot of banter going around. I must confess, I love Sundowns because they play beautiful football and I always admire them. They have really taken our football standard to another level. I was happy we played so well against them because I knew if we lost that game, it was going to be havoc at church the following day. Most of our Chiefs supporters at church were supporting Sundowns and you can only imagine what would have happened if we lost and they won on Sunday. To top it all off, we were going to a men’s conference in George this past weekend, so any bad results from the previous weekend would be something for everyone to laugh about. Even during preaching, those who won would make it a point to revisit the other team’s bad results just to rub salt into the wound. Honestly, I was praying that if we lose, may Chiefs also lose the next day so that there would be very little to talk about, ha, ha, ha. It would be easy to swallow our defeat, but if we lost and they won, you can imagine what would have happened. It would have been hell on

earth for us.

VJ: Is this level of banter extended to even the bishops when you meet up for service? NN: It is! For instance, Bishop Koliti is a Sundowns supporter and he’s always got a lot to say about their dominance. I’ve been recruiting him to join us for years, but he just doesn’t want to join us. The other Bishops are also divided between Pirates, Sundowns and Chiefs as well. So, we always talk football because we love the game. We all want to see development of football, especially at grassroots level. I must say, it bothers me that we don’t have much going on in terms of grassroots football in our country, especially our region in the Eastern Cape. Growing up, when it came to sport, your athletics, rugby, boxing, football and others, we were among theb est. Now we don’t have school sport anymore, especially football, and it is really sad. If we can also take football to white schools, that would goa long way because white schools are crazy about rugby and they have resources. We currently lack top-quality defenders, but white players are gifted in that regard. I’m not being racists here, it is a fact if you look at players like Mark Tovey at Bush Bucks, Neil Tovey at AmaZulu FC and later Chiefs, Stuart Lilley at Pirates and up to the era of the likes of Mark Fish and others. These guys aren’t your most skillful and they are about basics, which is what we need. They are not going to dribble or create scoring chances, but they will maintain the structure and discipline. Also, up front, you will remember Noel Cousins, Shane McGregor, and then you put our black and creative players in the middle and you get the results. Imagine the late Ace Ntsoelengoe, Jomo Sono, Teenage Dladla, Ace Mnini and many other legends. Those were the days and we really enjoyed our football. Now, sadly, with a number of imports that we’ve brought into our game, the standard has suffered and the excitement has been lost.

VJ: Mhhh…

NN: Having said that, we have to give credit where it is due because some imports have made a big difference. You look at coach Jose Riveiro, the man is getting our team to play some beautiful football. Even if we lose, let’s lose playing proper football and there must be entertainment involved. Because of entertaining football, even us at church, we want to make sure that we finish everything on time so that we can get a chance to watch either at the stadium or on television. That’s how we relieve our stress because we are dealing with a lot. Running a church or 4,2 million people isn’t easy at all. Our country could also do with some entertainment after everything we’ve been through in the last couple of years. When I go home on Sunday afternoon, I must be able to switch off, relax and enjoy go od football on television. Sundowns are excellent, Chiefs and Pirates are getting there, you have AmaZulu also making a statement, Marumo Gallants, Cape Town City, TS Galaxy and you name them, they are onto something. I’m just concerned about Swallows FC because that’s a people’s team. We want to see them doing well and not fighting relegation. This is one of the iconic tea ms in the country and they are the pillar and backbone of South African football.

VJ: You’ve highlighted the importance of church and sport going handin-hand, whereas some people tend to think the two are worlds apart. Please tell us more about that.

NN: Look, church people are the same people who play and support sport. As a leader, I have to be sensitive with time whenever there are games taking place because amagosa (the stewards), who are responsible for opening and closing the church, will be the first to remind me that there’s a game they need to watch. I still remember one of them would bang the door and shout, “Pirates is playing today” and that was a hint for us to speed things up. He was an elder man who loved his football and rugby, so the last thing we wanted was to stand in his way. There’s an emotional and spiritual linkage between sport and religion, especially Christianity. We always encourage our youth to participate in sport so that they can grow while growing the product as well. We want to assist SAFA in terms of growth in administration as well because it is not enough for the game to grow and the other important parts of it, like leadership, are not. I must say, I’m happy with the direction football is taking in this country, even though there’s always room for improvement. By the way, I can’t thank Banyana Banyana enough for bringing the elusive trophy home and giving us something to smile about. They are all in our prayers all the time, so that they don’t get injured and (to) prosper in their chosen sport. Let me also thank Bafana Bafana for beating both Sierra Leone and Botswana convincingly in their recent international friendlies. Themba Zwane proved, once again, that age is just a number. We will continue to support coach Hugo Broos, but he must listen to the heartbeat of the country and respect it.

VJ: Right.

NN: Also, as supporters we need to stop booing our players and show them love and support instead. Our country is going through a lot and I always encourage our congregants to represent Christ when they go to the stadium so that they can preach peace. That’s why we can’t separate church with sport.

VJ: What attracted you to Orlando Pirates?

NN: When you talk about Ethiopianism, you’re talking about Black Consciousness, you’re talking about people worshipping God in their own terms without being informed by anyone. You’re talking about an African church in Africa for African people. When you talk about Pirates, you’re talking about an institution of Black leadership and Black excellence. Remember, African people, Blacks in particular, have always been looked at as people who can’t own anything of value. When you speak about Pirates, it is a Black institution that’s been there since 1937, way before some of us were born. This is an institution of pride, an institution that people like Steve Biko and others followed because it spoke the same language as them. That’s why I support Pirates with all my heart. Ethiopianism is an institution that was founded in 1892 by James Mokone and then James Mata Dwane took it further in 1899 for the purposes of African people worshipping God in their own terms. The ANC was formed in 1912, so they were born because of the influence of Ethiopianism and we can’t separate our church as a movement, ANC, Black Consciousness of Azania and Pan African Congress because we are about to evangelize from Cape to Cairo. Together with this Black institution of pride, Orlando Pirates, perhaps there must come a day when these institutions meet and share ideas going forward about building the country. I believe an Imbizo of these institutions is long overdue.

VJ: Who is your current favorite player at Pirates?

NN: I have a couple of them: Thembinkosi Lorch, Vincent Pule and Zakhele Lepasa. These are typical South African players and I just wish they remain injury-free because they are what Pirates players

are about. Our new signing, Ndabayithethwa Ndlondlo, is another favourite because I have been following him for a while now. I think this team (Pirates) is going places and we just need to be patient with them. We are going to win a trophy this season to celebrate our 85th anniversary, mark my words. We are not going to put them under pressure – no, they must enjoy their football.

VJ: You mentioned coach Riveiro.

NN: He’s playing beautiful football and I’m happy with the team we have assembled. The defensive reinforcements are quality and I’m happy with Tapelo Xoki and Nkosinathi Sibisi since they joined. We need to see more link-up play between our defenders and midfielders, especially with Ndlondlo in the team now. Romeo (Kermit Erasmus) is back home and I’m over the moon because he’s got an eye for goals. Teamwork is more important than individuals, so they must work for one another because they have a really good coach who is calm and never shouts at them. Coach Riveiro proved a lot of people wrong, myself included. As a church leader, I have to be honest and accept that I was wrong. I wasn’t happy when he was brought here because of his CV and I thought Dr Irvin Khoza got it wrong. Honestly, I was hoping that he could lose a couple of games early on so that he could leave our team. This was in light of coach Pitso Mosimane becoming free from Egypt and I felt he would be the best person to take over and come back home. I was crossing my fingers that Pirates fail, but I must be honest and say sorry to the coach. I underestimated your philosophy and coaching ability even before giving you a chance, so please forgive me and the millions others who were not happy. I must also apologise to the Chairman, on behalf of Bucs supporters, we say sorry to you too because you proved us wrong. We can now see the direction of the team and this team reminds us of Viktor Bondarenko, Milutin Sredojevic and Kosta Papic’s teams. So, you knew what you were doing and we are so happy.

VJ: Before we let you go, what do you make of the standard of football in Mzansi?

NN: Thanks so much to the corporate world that has come on board to help women’s football. They are a beacon of hope and we believe

women’s football has a bright future in this country. When it comes to men’s football, there are no small teams anymore and that’s great for the game. I’m happy these teams are using mostly local products and it is also great to see South African coaches being given opportunities both in the country and even outside. I’m also happy to see people coming back to the stadiums and this helps to build our game, so we have to encourage our people to show up and support the game.

VJ: Arch, thanks so much for your time. We really appreciate your honesty and thought-provoking insights.

NN: You’re welcome, anytime VJ.