So Many Questions

The head of the ANC’s subcommittee on international relations, Obed Bapela, is shocked that the US did not invite Zimbabwe’s President Robert Mugabe to the US-Africa summit which starts tomorrow. Chris Barron asked him . . .

Why are you so shocked? Mugabe is the leader of a free country in Africa, and when other regional blocs invite they do that through the principle of membership of the African Union.

Why is he so popular in the AU? He is an African leader duly elected through a popular process.

If you’re referring to the 2013 elections, weren’t there gross violations? Some issues were raised but in total they conformed to the electoral process within their own laws.

Weren’t there serious violations of their electoral laws? The one I know of is the nonavailability of voters rolls that disadvantaged the opposition. They were only released on the day of the elections.

In fact the electronic voters roll has still not been released, has it? Yes, that is true, and I must agree that the opposition was disadvantaged materially in the elections. But in the absence of violence we ought to commend Zimbabwe for an improved environment.

Wasn’t this only because the people were still so cowed by what Mugabe did to them in 2008? No. I would say there was a lot of work and engagement with the government of Zimbabwe to make sure that a repeat of 2008 would not occur. It was because of hard work by the Southern African Development Community [SADC] itself.

Didn’t Mugabe block the reforms which the SADC insisted should precede the election? Well, he tried several times but then the SADC leadership was very firm on him and eventually he had to conform. But the issue of media was not satisfactory.

Can it be a free and fair election when Mugabe totally controls all the state media? The “free” of the elections yes, but the fairness of the elections, no. So you agree that the election was not fair?

It was free but not fair.

How can you say the election was unfair but he was democratically elected? There is no instrument in the world that says if the elections were unfair therefore they are not legitimate.

So the South African government believes an election is legitimate even if it is completely unfair? When you look at participation, at the involvement of the masses in the Zimbabwe election, then yes.

How can you know that the elections reflected the will of the

masses if no electronic version of the voters roll was released? Well, we had elections in 1994 in South Africa and there was no electronic voters roll, and those elections were regarded as credible.

How can you know that the results in Zimbabwe reflected the will of the people? Not every country in Africa has an electronic voters roll and you can’t say therefore the leaders are not legitimate because the will of the people was not expressed.

Isn’t this US-Africa leaders’ summit supposed to highlight a commitment to democracy in Africa? Africa has leaders that can engage on issues affecting the continent through the AU, and any bloc or power in the world ought to respect other regional blocs from elsewhere. If there are issues in any of those blocs then the US has the right to raise them, but it cannot exclude leaders of these blocs.

If the purpose of the exercise is to underline a commitment to democracy . . . There is also an economic aspect because the US is worried that China is overtaking it in the continent when it comes to economic activity. The purpose is more economic than democratic.

So the democratic aspect is unimportant? It’s important. Zimbabwe went through democratic elections.

Do you think Mugabe is committed to democracy? There was a democratic expression by Zimbabweans in electing their own government. Yes, there were issues, but it is a democracy, not a dictatorship.

Isn’t it effectively a one-party state?

They do allow opposition parties.

He makes it very difficult for the opposition, doesn’t he? But there is an opposition, there is a parliament.

Parliament is supposed to fund opposition parties but this is not happening in Zimbabwe, is it? I didn’t know that so I can’t comment on it.

Does the South African government want to see democracy in Zimbabwe?

There is democracy in Zimbabwe.

Can there be democracy without a free media? Is it a fundamental issue of democracy or not? Democracy means people have free expression.

How can there be free expression without a free media? That is only one leg of democracy but I agree it is weak in Zimbabwe.