Chris Barron

Why are they still sitting in Pretoria? Who said they are sitting in Pretoria? Officials from your own department. Let them tell you the correct thing. These guys are all over the country. How many have been deployed? All of them. When were they deployed? For months already. What are they doing? Different things. Project managers, technical support. Depending on their capacity. Are they exempt from the standards set by the Engineering Council of South Africa? No. You must remember that when they were recruited we sent a team to Cuba because they needed to be at a certain level of employment. We couldn’t just take anybody from the street. There was a stringent selection process working together with the Cuban government . . . Who were the people who went to Cuba to select them? Hold on, can I finish? A lot of people don’t want to accept that even with the blockade Cuba has been in the forefront of a lot of technical development, including in engineering. So this thing of trying to downgrade Cubans simply because they’ve not been part of the bigger Western picture is incorrect. There are certain international standards that have to be met though, surely? We have got to have people who come and work here who satisfy our own standards as a country. Was there a needs analysis before deciding we needed these Cubans? We didn’t just walk out of here and say, “Give us 10 people.” It was [to satisfy] the needs of the country that we went there. And we cannot know the needs of the country without a proper needs analysis. Who did the needs analysis? You’re interrupting, you’re not allowing me to answer. Obviously the department has an interest in how the sector performs. And obviously the department has a responsibility to ensure that we have what is required. So it was our responsibility to do a needs analysis. This is not the first time we have said there are shortages of skills, especially at municipalities which cannot attract the necessary skills. Why not? Because they don’t have the money to pay these guys. So you’re using the Cubans because they’re cheaper? Not because they’re cheaper, because they’re willing to go where our own

engineers have not been willing to go. Have you spoken to Consulting Engineers South Africa? They say they have engineers with internationally recognised qualifications ready and willing to go anywhere. They won’t go to a municipality that doesn’t have the capacity to pay them at the same level as the city of Cape Town. So is it a fact that the Cuban engineers are cheaper? They are not cheaper, because they have come at a certain level. Those are the skills that we have bought. Are these skills recognised by the engineering council? I can’t answer for the engineering council but from where we are sitting as a department we are confident of their skills. But the council is a statutory body. Doesn’t that mean its standards have to be met? Please don’t ask me to answer for the engineering council. I don’t speak for them. I will not speak for them. I want you to speak for your department. Do the Cubans have the necessary qualifications? Are their qualifications recognised? They are recognised according to the standards that we require. Shouldn’t they be recognised according to the standards required by the engineering council? That is why I am saying the statutory body can make their own pronouncements, but according to the recruitment process we underwent, which was very rigorous, we are happy with the skills we got. You may well be, but they are not recognised internationally or by the relevant local body, are they? That’s your own position, it’s not fact. Is Cuba part of the Washington Accord that governs international engineering qualifications? You can’t bring the Washington Accord in when Washington has barred people from being recognised. Isn’t South Africa a signatory of the Washington Accord? South Africa signed the Washington Accord, but are you saying the Washington Accord is different from what we are able to garner from the Cubans in the medical field? I’m talking about the engineering field. The Washington Accord governs international engineering qualifications. Shouldn’t South Africa, as a signatory, adhere to those standards? I think you are looking for a debate and I am not going to debate with you. I can check that. I don’t have the answer on my fingertips right now.