So Many Questions
The Umkhonto weSizwe Military Veterans Association took it upon itself to defend the ANC’s Luthuli House headquarters in Joburg from protesting ANC members this week. Chris Barron asked association chairman Deputy Defence Minister Kebby Maphatsoe . . .
I couldn’t help noticing how young some of your veterans looked. MK had detachments which differ with generations and age. When we were in Uganda in 1992 there was a girl from the Vaal who was born in 1978. We still have the video clips where she was with the late Oliver Tambo there. Did MK use child soldiers? When we as the young lions left the country during the ’80s we had people who were at the age of 15. That’s why Oliver Tambo named them the detachment of the young lions. So MK used child soldiers? We never had child soldiers, we had revolutionaries which we called guerrillas of Umkhonto weSizwe. As young as 15? I’m talking about 15, 16. They were not really in the majority. Is the military veterans’ association a private army? We’re an association of former members of MK. We’re not an army. Why do you wear army gear? That uniform is ours. And it is in our constitution that it is only MKMVA that has the right to protect its legacy and its heritage. Does the constitution allow you to carry guns? I don’t know who was carrying a gun in front of Luthuli House. No one was carrying a gun there. Why were they threatening to shoot? To shoot who? Journalists, among others. The issue of journalists is unfortunate, and I said we apologise if it happened. It was not supposed to be like that. How can MK military veterans who fought for freedom threaten journalists in a constitutional democracy? I am saying it is an unfortunate thing that happened. They don’t seem to have much discipline for military veterans. There was a problem of communication. If you have many messages and not one command it creates a problem. I called them a private army but would it be fair to say they behave more like a militarised gang? No, they’re not a gang. It’s an insult to say MK military veterans behave like a gang. They are disciplined members of the MKMVA. So why were they threatening journalists? I’m saying there was a miscommunication. Because remember that Luthuli House was under threat. From the ANC’s own members? From those disgruntled people who wanted to occupy Luthuli House. Don’t they have a right to protest? They do have a right, but they said they’re going to occupy Luthuli House. They wanted to disrupt the functioning of the ANC headquarters. I didn’t see anyone trying to storm Luthuli House. Because we were there. If we were not there they would have entered. By what law are military veterans entitled to threaten, intimidate and assault people in the city centre? No one was threatened. In fact, those people who were demonstrating were protected by members of MK. When some members of the ANC wanted to attack them, MKMVA members stopped them. Who asked you to defend Luthuli House? We had a national executive committee meeting, and in that meeting we resolved MKMVA must come and defend Luthuli House. Did the ANC ask you to defend Luthuli House? No. How can you take it upon yourselves to protect the headquarters of the ANC when the ANC didn’t ask you?
If you read our constitution it says we derive our existence from the ANC. Anything that threatens the ANC, we as part of the ANC don’t have to get permission from anyone to go and defend Luthuli House. ANC secretary-general Gwede Mantashe says your views are not sanctioned by the ANC. Yes. We are an autonomous structure. So we have our views. If the ANC leadership don’t agree with our views they will discuss their concerns with us. How far will the MKMVA take its mission to defend the ANC? Until we are all dead. Should a party in a democracy need to be defended by a private army? If you threaten the democracy that we fought for we will always defend that democracy. Does this mean going to war against opposition parties who might defeat the ANC in the 2019 elections? The ANC has lost Tshwane, the ANC has lost Johannesburg, the ANC has lost Nelson Mandela, and there is no war. That will still happen beyond the 2019 elections. Is it the MKMVA’s agenda to defend the Guptas? The Guptas are our friends. Why? We hope other businesspeople could be like the Guptas. Because they came to us and said: “We want to be your partners, we want to give you shares in some of our businesses.” Is this why you’re so anxious to defend them? We will defend any South African who is being treated unfairly.