THE DARK KNIGHT RETURNS
We spoke to Pattinson and Kravitz about what it was like to play two of the most iconic comic-book heroes of all time.
The Dark Knight returns in ‘The Batman’, director Matt Reeves’ take on the DC Comics character and everybody’s favourite troubled hero. In this version, Robert Pattinson plays the Caped Crusader and, to rival even Michelle Pfeiffer’s portrayal of the sexiest superhero foil, Zoë Kravitz is brilliantly cast as Selina Kyle, AKA Catwoman. Also exceptional are Colin Farrell — almost unrecognisable as The Penguin — Paul Dano as The Riddler and John Turturro as Carmine Falcone, a Gotham City crime lord
How did this role come to you? Did I hear that it was you who planted the seed with producer Dylan Clark?
I accidentally planted the seed. I was meeting Dylan for something else and then ... Actually, to be honest, I definitely was angling for it, but I didn’t know what the status of the project was. I remember talking to Dylan for a long time then right at the end I asked, “So what’s happening with The Batman?” Batman is literally the only comic character I’d ever do. He’s by far the coolest. I thought it was completely out of reach but I thought, “Oh, I might as well just throw my cap in the ring.” I didn’t realize Matt [Reeves] was thinking about me for the part.
What do you think about his take on the character?
It’s funny, because I didn’t quite realise why it felt so different at first. I had to talk to him about it afterwards, and he said: “It’s because Bruce isn’t a playboy and he hasn’t got control.” In the other movies, he has complete control of the delineation of when he’s Bruce in public, when he’s Bruce in private and when he’s Batman, and he can change at will. In this film, he’s Batman the whole time. He lets Bruce disappear. Bruce is just an afterthought to his life, which is sad in a way. But Bruce as a person starts to reawaken as the story goes along. He thinks, “I just want to abandon it all. I just want to be Batman the entire time. And I just sleep as Bruce,” basically.
He’s Batman in service of finding Bruce rather than the other way around, which is what we’re used to?
Exactly.
So he’s become Batman completely, but he’s nowhere near refining the character, is that right?
Yeah. I like the fact that you don’t see the origin story, it’s only alluded to ... Even in the graphic novels. There’s always a period of, “Oh, I went away and trained, and I’ve mastered myself.” So, when Batman emerges into Gotham, he’ sa finished product. In this film, it seems that he’s been a recluse for years, and then something starts to emerge. It’s less logic-based. I remember reading the comics, Shaman and The Man Who Falls, and in some of the different comics, he’s literally just a bat — when he’s trying to think of what he has to be, it’s just a bat that comes through the window — and he goes, “That’s what I have to be. A bat.” In the graphic novels, you accept that. But if you think about it, it’s incredibly strange, but maybe there’s symbolism or a purpose to it. There’s something about putting on that suit that allows him to access heightened feelings, because there’s an abandonment of self as soon as he puts it on. The more he puts it on, the more abandonment comes with it. If you totally shut down your emotions, you can heighten your immediate senses, I guess.
How does he switch from pure, raw energy and anger to, “I’ve got a crime to solve?”
It’s still from an instinctive place, but it’s a different type of instinct. He’s always methodical. The questions the Riddler puts forward, the riddles, he wants to know the answers.
And things get personal?
As much as he tries to bury his past, bury the baggage of being Bruce Wayne, there are still unanswered questions. He can’t help but be drawn in. It’s interesting ...
There’s something so odd about his character. He’s not a normal person.
There’s something else that motivates him?
I kept trying to interpret that. He’s not just good at logic problems or solving ciphers. It’s as if there’s a point inside him where he can access a sensory zone that allows him to fight lots of different people at the same time because it’s about focus and Zen. Even when you’re looking at the ciphers, he drops down to a deeper level of existence. It’s the same thing inside him that believes if he puts on a suit of armour, it’s like, “I am no longer Bruce.” There was a thing I kept trying to play on. It’s not logical behaviour. He’s almost meditating to get to it, he’s in a fugue state.
You have an amazing cast around you, populating the beautiful, fictional Gotham that Matt Reeves created. Can you tell me about working with Zoë Kravitz, Andy Serkis and Jeffrey Wright?
I’ve known Zoë for a long time. She’s born to play the part. I imagined her face and thought, “Yeah, that’s Catwoman.” She’s so responsive, really fun, such a hard worker. We did fight training together for hours. Matt didn’t leave the edit room till 2am every single day it inspired me to work harder. I’ve been a fan of Jeffrey for years. Everyone knows the stakes are high when you’re doing a big movie. If anyone didn’t take it as seriously as you it’d be irritating.
How cool is this version of the Batmobile?
When I first saw it I was supposed to be testing whether I could fit in it with the cowl on. I didn’t realise you could actually drive it. We were on a testing track it was the only time they left me alone with it because after that, they knew I couldn’t be trusted with it. I drove around for 20 minutes. I was never allowed to drive it for fun again. But the driver in the car chase is really me, driving fast. Normally you’d be in a shell in the studio, so to do it for real with the rain machines everywhere on the freeway was very exciting.
Colin Farrell as The Penguin: where is he in that makeup?
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In the first rehearsal with Colin I had absolutely no idea who it was. I don’t think anybody did. I hadn’t seen a photo of the costume or the makeup he was wearing. When we did the rehearsal the next day and he’d only got the head on with his normal clothes, and it was one of the most disturbing things I’ve ever seen in my life. But yeah, I didn’t know the technology behind the makeup was so advanced. I mean, you could look at it from an inch away and have no idea it was makeup. It was incredible. You could see he was enjoying it too the amazing transformation.
ZOË KRAVITZ How did this role come to you?
Prayer. No, I got a call from my agent, who told me that a Batman movie was being made, with a Catwoman role.
There was a specific list of people auditioning — a shortlist — and they wanted me to meet Matt [Reeves]. I tried to keep my excitement under control because we’ve grown up with these characters — it’s a role of a lifetime. I went to LA to meet Matt and it made my anticipation greater because he was great and so invested. He’s one of the most interesting artists I’ve ever met. He sent me the script. I read it, which made it even worse because it was really good. I read with Rob, and that made it worse again because he was so great and sweet. And so, at the end of the day, I would’ve been very sad not to get the part. When Matt called me, I was over the moon, and finally able to let the excitement out. I’d been holding my breath for a month.
What was it about the character Selina Kyle and this iteration of her that grabbed you?
I had a superficial idea of Catwoman. It’s iconic. It’s sexy. It’s cool. We like her. It was those kinds of ideas. What was special was getting to read the script and allowing those ideas to fall away. It’s a very complex story that Matt’s written, and he was talking about his references of Chinatown and Klute and some of the most fascinating female characters I’ve seen on screen. To play someone so strong and yet vulnerable at the same time is refreshing — the character is strong, doesn’t have to be masculine but is still tough. It was also important to me and Matt not to victimise her or turn her into a stereotype or fetishise her. I thought, “I want to strip that away and really understand who she is.” There’d be moments where I’d be reading the script and my heart would break for her. She’d been through so much pain.
Whether she’s Selina Kyle or Catwoman, she’s one of the most fan-favourite characters in the DC Universe. How did it feel to put on the catsuit, knowing how iconic that is in pop culture?
The catsuit was crazy. You have to trick yourself into forgetting all of what the outfit meant before this particular role or it gets too complicated and I’d think about too many things. The first time Rob and I did a camera test together and Rob came out in a Batman suit, I thought, “Oh my God, I’m talking to Batman?” You never get used to it. I’d see his silhouette walk across the set and that was almost weirder. The weirdest part was when Batman walked in and everyone said, “Morning.”“Morning.”
Did you do any research on the comic books to find inspiration?
I wasn’t a comic-book reader before. I’d seen all the Batman films. I was a fan of the Universe. Once we started, I went to Matt and I said, “What should I read?” There’s so much information out there that I was afraid to get overwhelmed and have too many ideas. We ended up focusing on the Year One comic, which was his biggest reference in terms of the comic books. I ended up reading it a million times, focusing on it because I was nervous about doing a deep dive and liking too many things, wanting to do them all. I decided to be strict with myself, even though it was tempting to read everything I could get my hands on.
She hasn’t identified herself as this Catwoman yet.
No. Gotham knows what Batman is. No-one knows who Catwoman is. She doesn’t know what Catwoman is. If anything, it’s interesting to think about the fact that she’s inspired by Batman. She’s met this person who puts on a mask and changes his identity. Knowing where her story’s going, that was one thing that I always held with me she feels connected and inspired by the decisions he’s made.
She’s also incredibly, physically tough, and your petite frame belies what you can do with it, because in addition to being very smart, very clever, she has to really fight. Did you do any specific kind of training regimen for this?
We did a lot of training. I went to London three months before we started shooting to start training, to learn how to move and kick. I spoke to Rob Alonzo, our stunt co-ordinator, who’ sa genius. We watched videos of cats and big cats, the way they fight, trying to incorporate that into her movement, to make it feel practical and grounded. So, yes, I’m not that strong or big, but I’m fast. She’s scrappy you don’t know what her next move is going to be. Think about when you watch a cat. You can’t tell if it’s asking you to pet it or if it’s going to scratch your face. We took these ideas and combined them into physical movement. It was hard we were working long days.
It’s an emotional script, an emotional journey ... then you go home and work out for two-and-a-half hours, and it’s the last thing you want to do. Obviously, you want to look and feel good, but I wanted to make sure that it felt possible that she could do these physical things. I got really strong. I was able to do more push-ups than I’d ever done in my life, and I could lift heavy things. It was crazy to feel the physical transformation.
Powerful?
Yes, really strong.
What was it like working with Peter Sarsgaard, John Turturro and Colin Farrell, some real heavy hitters?
The cast is incredible. The first time I saw Colin on set in his prosthetics I was just blown away. I couldn’t believe it was him. I went up to his face and stared into his eyes. I was trying to see if I could see Colin there I couldn’t. It freaked me out. And John Turturro ... Matt and I would geek out. I live in New York. He’s the New York actor. He’s the nicest man, so funny and he loves to tell stories. I had a lot of fun with him and Paul Dano, who’s an old friend of mine. I was in very good company.
You have a wonderful sequence with Peter Sarsgaard and he seems like such a lovely man, but he was so creepy in this film.
It’s crazy how easy it was for him to drop into that. He’s this sad, scared man, right? For my character, it was always, “Get out of my way. Everyone’s in my way.” She’s so focused on trying to find her friend, but that scene with Peter was really fun. He was fantastic.
The Batman is definitely a DC superhero movie but it’s unexpected in many ways — the tone, the look, the feel ... What do you hope audiences will experience when they see this movie on the screen?
I had a superficial idea of Catwoman. It’s iconic. It’s sexy. It’s cool. We like her. It was those kinds of ideas. What was special was getting to read the script and allowing those ideas to fall away.
I hope they’re surprised, and that it feels like something new because we, as a culture, love superhero movies. That’s why we make them over and over again. That being said, I don’t want audiences to go to the theatre and see the movie they thought they were going to see. I want them to think, “I had no idea what I was walking into.” I want them to be on the edge of their seats, surprised, but also satisfied. I think it checks all those boxes. I hope people interact with this movie.