Pravin, Dali in street brawl
Sparks fly at the Zondo commission as ‘arrogant’ former finance minister Pravin Gordhan butts heads with Tom Moyane’s counsel Dali Mpofu over, among other claims, Gordhan calling the ex-Sars boss ‘cheeky’.
The gloves came off when Pravin Gordhan climbed into the ring with Tom Moyane’s lawyer, advocate Dali Mpofu, at the Commission of Inquiry into State Capture yesterday.
From the outset, it was clear there would be no love lost between the two.
Mpofu’s highly anticipated cross-examination of Gordhan on Moyane’s behalf yesterday started with a tense exchange around the former finance minister’s decision to appear before the commission by video link this time, which Gordhan said was based on medical advice.
And things quickly escalated from there, with deputy chief justice and commission chair Raymond Zondo stepping in on multiple occasions, including when Mpofu called Gordhan “arrogant”.
But political analyst Daniel Silke said yesterday that regardless of the “legal theatrics” that marked the day’s proceedings, Gordhan appeared to have emerged relatively unscathed.
“It does seem like an attempt to discredit and damage the credibility of Gordhan and thereby negate the negativity around Moyane.
“But I’m not convinced that Mpofu has really been able to dent his initial evidence sufficiently,” he said.
Gordhan, who is presently the country’s public enterprises minister, was one of the first witnesses to appear before the commission after it started its work in 2018.
He took the stand for three days in November of that year,
during which time he implicated Moyane in the capture of the SA Revenue Service (Sars) during his tenure as commissioner.
Moyane was granted permission to cross-examine Gordhan on, among other things, his evidence around a criminal complaint Moyane laid at Brooklyn police station in 2016 in connection with former deputy Sars commissioner Ivan Pillay’s controversial early retirement.
The minister has described this complaint as the catalyst for the fraud charges brought against him later that year but subsequently withdrawn.
But Gordhan and Mpofu yesterday found themselves at odds over even relatively trivial issues.
Early on in proceedings, Mpofu asked Gordhan to stick to “yes” and “no” answers. Gordhan replied he would like to add a line or two where necessary “for clarity”.
“It might help Mr Mpofu as well,” he added.
But Mpofu shot back: “No, I don’t need your help Mr Gordhan.”
Later, Mpofu put it to Gordhan that state capture was a serious crime, to which Gordhan started to respond that it was “a terrible thing to do” before Mpofu cut him off.
“Is Mr Mpofu going to do all the talking,” Gordhan then asked, to which Mpofu responded:”You don’t have to be arrogant Mr Gordhan.”
Gordhan yesterday maintained Moyane had abused legal processes and that he had been motivated by the pursuit of state capture.
But Mpofu put it to Gordhan that he and Moyane had a “hostile” relationship, which his client would attribute to the minister’s “general arrogance”, jealousy and racism, together with his “desire to deflect from your own involvement in state capture and corruption”, and Moyane having blown the whistle on “the trail of illegal and corrupt activities you left behind at Sars”.
Gordhan vehemently denied the allegations against him.
“To now throw around notions such as racism and my alleged involvement in corruption is part of the fake news narrative that bots right now seem to be propagating all over the show,” he shot back.
Mpofu read into the record a transcript of a conversation in which Gordhan had called Moyane “cheeky,” told him to “grow up” and asked him: “What gives you the right to talk to your minister like this?”
“By calling another man in your age group ‘ cheeky’, is that how you speak to people you respect? Or just African people?” he asked Gordhan.
Gordhan replied it had nothing to do with race.
“But I understand desperation often leads to these kinds of adventures,” he added
“Well, grow up Mr Gordhan, don’t be cheeky. How does that feel?” a visibly irked Mpofu retorted.
Silke said yesterday there was an “undercurrent of trying to embarrass President Cyril Ramaphosa’s faction”.
“Which Gordhan is an essential cog in,” he said, “But I don’t think this has had any substantive impact. I think he managed to keep his cool and hold on.”
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To now throw around notions such as racism and my alleged involvement in corruption is part of the fake news narrative that bots right now seem to be propagating all over the show.
Pravin Gordhan
Minister of Public Enterprises