From Zim’s strongman to a man of the people
Peta Thornycroft interviews president-elect Emmerson Mnangagwa at State House in Harare
PETA THORNYCROFT: Who gave the army the order to go into the city on August 1? EMMERSON MNANGAG
WA: I consulted the commissioner-general of police and he indicated that, in terms of the law, the commissioner of police can contact his counterpart who commands the local unit to give him immediate support while the process is ongoing.
The entire country was in a jovial mood. No one expected the violence that happened so suddenly. The police were taken by surprise. They were deployed countrywide, covering the election process, so suddenly the small unit (left in Harare) could not control what was happening. In terms of the law, police are allowed to summon assistance to bring order.
We regret what happened. This should not happen again. We are instituting a commission of inquiry and, to give it more flavour and transparency, are bringing in people from abroad. I have one name from South Africa, one from the UK to consider with three names to join us to look at the matter. The inquiry will begin immediately after the inauguration.
PT: You made an effort to rebuild the party and now this tragedy strikes after peaceful elections.
EM: Fortunately I am not doing it alone, I am doing it with my team. We all agree Zimbabwe must change. We must have a different image from the isolationist posture of the past.
PT: There is one photo of a soldier shooting and another soldier stepping forward and stopping him. What are your views on that?
EM: I have not seen that picture.
PT: It’s a shocking picture. Why hasn’t he been arrested?
EM: Orders have been given about all those people who took the law into their own hands, whether it was police or others. I also don’t want to pre-emept the outcomes of the commission I am instituting.
PT: Human rights groups say there are 150 cases of unconstitutional violence since August 1. Do you agree?
EM: Let me assure you, the best thing to do is get the list of 150 cases and pass it on to us. This is fake news… We were told (of these cases) by Philippe van Damme, the EU ambassador, here and we took him to task. He had to later apologise as this was not true.
PT: Human rights groups have details of those cases.
EM: Be wary of Zimbabwe human rights groups. They have an agenda. They have always been against the government.
PT: Human rights people are desperately looking for the commissioner of police.
EM: So why would they come to you, the journalists? Let them go to the commissioner. He is in the country, he is in town.
PT: MDC Alliance MP Tendai Biti fled the country and went to Zambia. There was a warrant for his arrest.
EM: What I saw on TV was that statement issued by the police, that they wanted him to come to Harare Central police station to clear certain issues… If he was really innocent and had not done anything he should have quickly gone to the Harare police station and stated the issues he wanted to clear. Why did he skip the country?
PT: Many people are fearful nowadays, especially when they see people in uniform.
EM: I have not received information from my party or from the general public or from any citizen saying I am fearful. Never, never. You will see police walking in uniform. It is legitimate, it’s allowed by the law. You will see soldiers in their trucks. They are not on a mission to intimidate.
Our police and our army they are very friendly. We have defence forces’ week, where they build clinics, schools to show the army and the public are in good relations… this is fake news that our people are afraid of the
army.
PT: How will Zimbabwe move on after this terrible turn of events?
EM: We will continue preaching peace, peace, unity, unity, love, love to our people; it is a culture and we want its roots to go deeper and deeper.
PT: Were you surprised by the poll results: only 0.8% above 50%? (To avoid a runoff the winner needs 50% plus 1.)
EM: We have 133 political parties. Of the 133, 54 participated in the elections and 22 were bidding for the office of president. All 22 were fighting me, and I am proud that I beat not only the 22 but the entire 54. I got 2.4 million votes against 2.1 million… 22 political parties, and I beat them all.
PT: The MDC has gone to court to challenge your victory. What are your views?
EM: I am not privy to their thinking. As a government we have not interfered with the process of the Zimbabwe Electoral Commission. We will allow the law to take its course. This is my attitude.
PT: Will the Mugabe family have some of their many farms taken away?
EM: It’s not a question of voluntary giving farms up but about complying with policy. I am still receiving evidence of what the (former) first family had. When that process is complete they will select one farm and the rest will be given elsewhere.
It’s not on the basis of the family (one family one farm), it is on the basis of government policy. PT: Is there anything you regret in your life? EM: I don’t think I regret anything. I have no other life I know except politics from when I was 17. I never worked for anyone but the people and the party. I don’t regret that. PT: Will the new truth commission you signed into law to deal with thousands of murders of opposition supporters from the 1980s get enough money to operate properly? EM: When they (comm i s s i o n o f f i c i a l s ) w a n t money they don’t go to journalists, let them come to me. You must first ask them, did you go to the president?
PT: What do you say about those massacres known as Gukurahundi following independence.
EM: Former president (Robert Mugabe) described it and said it was a “moment of madness”. I have said we can’t live in the past and that should never again happen in our country. Let us be a family and forge ahead. I second the position taken by our former president – a moment of madness.
PT: In Mugabe’s statements to the press before the elections, he said he never trusted you.
EM: I trusted him to the end and it’s only now that I’ve learnt he doesn’t trust me. We shared the deepest issues together.
PT: Mugabe has talked about you and Dan Stannard, the former Rhodesian head of security who later became head of Zimbabwe’s security, about some of the activities. What’s your thought on this?
EM: During the era of independence some South Africans and Selous Scouts (Rhodesian soldiers) were going to blow up heads of state and Prince Charles, Indira Gandhi, at Rufaro Stadium. They brought in some Sam 7 missiles, and the person who alerted us was Stannard. We removed them. I think it is his (Mugabe’s) old age that he has forgotten. He said I was a Rhodesian spy? Why would he work with me for 54 years if I was a Rhodesian spy?
PT: What about the immediate post-independence period of instability in the country. Was that always part of the plan?
EM: I should give credit for how we handled matters, post-independence. The president, prime minister (Mugabe) back then, espoused national reconciliation. We had some whites who went out to reverse our gains but we were able to outmanoeuvre them and establish peace. At the time there were a lot of bandits and dissidents killing people in Matabeleland North in the Midlands. I am happy that at the end of the day reconciliation won because it was not an easy task to marry three armies which had differ-
PT: What about violence against the MDC following 2000? Many of their members were killed and jailed and none have been prosecuted for those crimes.
EM: You can go back to police and find out who was not charged. Go to the police and ask them what happened to those cases. Anyone who committed a crime, the police would have had a duty to arrest them.
PT: What about the G40 faction within Zanu-PF that has remained loyal to Mugabe. What happened to them?
EM: I have never been a member of G40. I don’t know what they are planning or not planning. I hear from security that they continuously tweet. They continuously make statements.
For me, I am looking forward (to the) future. There is no reason for living in the past. We must all preach peace and unite our people even those who were antagonistic. We are Zimbabweans and come together.
PT: Returning to the shooting in Harare on August 1, who gave the order to the army because General Valerio Sibanda says he did not?
EM: I have replied to this. You are so repetitive… this is typical, like Mugabe. We walked together for 54 years and he didn’t trust me. No one gave orders, there is this perception and it is disjointed. I explained that the army has a strict command structure. I am the commander-in-chief and matters are handled according to the process.