ANGEL BISMARK CURIEL
Say, ahem, halo to the Pose favourite as he opens up about what the trail-blazing show has taught him and being a trans ally
Category is… farewell as we prepare to bid adieu to revolutionary television series Pose, which will strut away from our screens for good following its third swansong season later this year. Hopping onto a video call with Angel Bismark Curiel, who plays former street kid (and just plain adorable) Lil Papi, it is abundantly clear that the fan favourite isn’t ready to say goodbye.
“I’m trying to take it day by day,” says Angel, visibly emotional. “Sure,
I’ll be able to hold space with some of these actors on other projects and settings, but I’m going to miss hanging out with my cast mates and friends. I consider them family.” It’s like the grieving process, I suggest, the sadness and anger will soon give way to acceptance: “I’m in the anger part right now, the ‘No, no, no!’ stage.”
Set inside the bruised but glittering heart of New York’s ballroom scene in the ’80s and ’90s, Pose – created by Ryan Murphy and Steven Canals and executive-produced by Janet Mock – navigates everything from the Aids crisis and drug addiction to, um, accidental asphyxiation (oops), but, ultimately, it’s a celebration of the chosen family.
TV’s best-dressed drama has also changed the game when it comes to representing and elevating queer and transgender people of colour, both in front of and behind the camera, lifting up and making bona fide stars of the likes of Mj Rodriguez (aka Blanca), Indya Moore (Angel), Dominique Jackson (Elektra) and the Emmy-winning Billy Porter (Pray Tell).
“I feel like we all came into this thing not really knowing and, man, we kicked a big door open,” Angel, 25, beams, with a smile worthy of a perfect 10, 10, 10, 10, 10. “That’s the legacy I want; I want doors to continue to get kicked open and I know they will. This is just the beginning for all of us, and this is not a bad beginning, I would say.”
Reflecting on his time on the show, the Afro-Dominican actor, who grew up in Liberty City, Miami, opens up about how educational the show has been for him as a straight, cis man, being an ally and the ways in which his real-life relationship with Janet Mock, a trans woman, informed character Lil Papi’s sweet, soul-stirring, stigma-shaking romance with his girlfriend, Angel.
Just don’t ask the up-and-comer about his sex symbol status, which he is still trying on for size. “I’m gonna have to go and get some biceps!” he exclaims.
Is there a special meaning behind the name Angel?
There is. Originally, my mum was going to call me Sylvester because she had this massive crush on Sylvester Stallone. I’m not going to get into my mother’s taste in men… Another one is Christopher Meloni. I mean, we can go there if you want.
No, I’d have to call her up and see if she’s willing to give her dish [laughs]. So, she was going to call me Sylvester and the whole time my aunts were, like, “Please don’t do that to the poor child, he’s going to get picked on in school; everyone’s talking about Sylvester the fucking cat, no one’s going to know it’s Sylvester Stallone.” My mum has diabetes and so, unfortunately, when I was born, she ended up in a diabetic coma temporarily. She wasn’t able to fill out the forms and stuff like that, but her sister stepped in and was able to take care of that situation for her and they ended up naming me after my father, whose name is also Angel.
I was born two months early and my middle name is Miracle… only kidding, although I was very premature.
Oh, come on man, I was going to start calling you Miracle Stich!
You still can. So, when you found out that Pose’s third season would be its last, did that come as a surprise?
The way I saw the story being told, I was, like, we have capacity and room for another two to three seasons, and so it did come as a bit of a surprise. But it’s like anything – I’m actually [just] grateful that our producers and writers know when it’s time to, sort of, put the final pieces to the story together.
Please tell me you managed to pinch something from the set as a memento.
Definitely did. I have two boxes I still have to unpack. I took a couple of shoes, and probably every single belt Papi ever wore… I [also] took one outfit in particular that I absolutely adored, [a pair of] white shorts and a white t-shirt — very basic, but I loved it.
The show is an embarrassment of riches when it comes to fashion, so at least you got a whole wardrobe out of it.
I sure did. Whenever I’m missing a little piece or an item to an outfit, I go into that Papi drawer.
Some of my favourite moments from the series are the family dinner scenes. Did you manage to have a ‘last supper’ with your cast mates?
We all had a dinner together, every single one of us. It wasn’t just the cast; we had the writers, the producers, some of our department heads, and it was a very sweet moment. The cast is airtight; we all talk about making sure at least one day out of the year, to have everyone sit down for a dinner to continue that tradition… But people about to get busy, you know what I’m saying, we’ve got a lot of stars on this show. I’m gonna have to start asking for schedules!
The chemistry between yourself and the likes of Mj, Indya and Billy seems so easy and natural. Do they feel like family members in real life?
Very much so… We were always together, talking stories, playing music – if you talked to Indya, they always had a speaker blasting music, trying to get the party started [laughs]. Mj [meanwhile] was always running amok, cracking jokes. Yeah, it was a good time with all of us.
Did you develop any unexpected skills during your downtime on
Pose?
I picked up a colouring book and started colouring. It was the funnest fucking thing in the world. It [also] grounded me, weirdly enough, because it gave me something
to really focus on, as opposed to— I’m a thinker and I’m always think, think, think, think, and I realised it was an amazing way for me to settle that. It became this meditation that I started doing in my downtime in between set-ups… then, out of nowhere, some of the cast members started asking for sheets and we all started colouring. So, it wasn’t a skill, per se, but I did learn to colour inside the lines for once. I can’t say it was easy [laughs].
Can you remember the first time you walked onto the set?
The first time, I walked onto the set but didn’t get a chance to do any work, because the schedules shifted around and so my scene got dropped. But it was an amazing day nonetheless, because I got to meet Steven and Janet, who is very much a force to be reckoned with and one of the greatest writers and directors of our generation. Instantly, I felt at ease, because they were so kind, just there and present with me. It made me want to show up on set even more. The next day, we shot a dinner scene; it was the first dinner scene I had, and I was in such a kiddie mode, like a kid at a candy store. I got to meet Mj, Indya and Ryan Jamaal Swain [Damon] and it was very instant. We had a nice click.
the ballroom culture of the ’80s and ’90s and the trans and queer pioneers at the heart of it?
[Angel makes a zero gesture with his hand.] Oh, really?
Zero per cent. I was clueless. I grew up in a very cis, very heteronormative life. The only experience or encounters I had with trans or queer people was always from afar and never from an intimate setting. I never had that growing up, but coming into the space, it felt so natural, so organic. There were no hiccups along the way. It was really just a matter of getting to know the people that I was gonna get to spend time with… which blossomed into some very amazing friendships and a very amazing experience these past three seasons, that I don’t think I would have had the opportunity of having, had I come in as a very narrow-minded, close-minded person. I’m very grateful to have been able to come on this show and to be given the opportunity to get to know some of the most important people in my life right now.
Going hand in hand with that question, what have you learned from playing Lil Papi?
I learned the importance of showing up — not just when you’re in a room with someone, but even more importantly when you’re not. I realised that it’s not enough to hold space and be comfortable with trans and queer people, but to make sure that when [I’m] holding space with cisgender, heterosexual folks outside of these spaces that I’m still making sure that there’s no toxicity or any harmful situations that arise, because I know how beautiful and safe this space is. I was welcomed to it [Angel snaps his fingers] like this. You know, it was the most safe and most comfortable I had felt ever in my life.
So, now I know I have a responsibility when I’m not in a predominantly trans and queer space to hold everyone else accountable, because [more often than not] the violence that gets [inflicted on] trans women of colour and queer people of colour comes from cisgender, heterosexual people based [on] fear and feeling uncomfortable. Or, if you’re dating a trans woman, from feeling embarrassed, you know, that your peers might find out that she’s trans or whatever it is, and so you know you inflict damage on a trans woman out of fear of being or feeling embarrassed by your peers.
I learnt that from Papi. You have to not just hold space and be comfortable and be happy and have your laughs when you’re in the space here; you have to bring that to this other world, because that can be a bridge, which ultimately is what we’re
looking for. We’re looking for that bridge so that the world can co-exist how it’s supposed to co-exist.
In the midst of the Black Lives Matter movement and the rising rhetoric against the trans community in right-wing media and legislation, it makes you realise that true allyship cannot be passive. It has to be about checking people for their actions.
Absolutely. You have to be willing to make room for conversations that are hard and uncomfortable, because ultimately that’s where change happens. Any time you’re uncomfortable, you’re uncomfortable because you’re about to grow.
Have you had many uncomfortable conversations where you’ve witnessed transphobia and then held the person to account?
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I’ve had plenty of conversations back home with my own friends. I very much put it out on the table and say, “All right, y’all, we gotta have a conversation, let’s talk, ask questions and I’ll do my best to answer them, and we can go from there. I don’t have all the answers, but I can share what I know.” Then there was an instance when I was on a set having shot, I think, the first or second season of Pose, where I was in a car with a driver and the driver said something extremely transphobic. I knew that this was a make-it-or-break-it moment, this was do or die, you had to check this. It’s because of gentlemen like this that trans women end up dead; it’s because of that remark you just said that trans women end up dead.
I had to check that, and the way I checked that, I had to hold space with his boss, I had to hold space with him. I had to hold space with my boss, because that was the only way we were gonna say, “Hey, it doesn’t matter what show I’m on, it doesn’t matter if I’m Lil Papi on Pose or not, this shit is not OK and here’s why it’s not OK and how are we going to fix it, what are we going to do to make sure this gentleman knows that this is not OK?” Those are the hard conversations that need to be had. When you find yourself in a position of privilege, much [like] how I found myself in a position of privilege in that scenario, in that space, you have to say, OK, it’s on me, it’s on me to do this work right now because I can, I can hold that plate and that’s what it’s all about.
I’m privileged to work within queer media, and I’ve had tricky conversations with my cis, straight friends. I also have a relative who is at the beginning of their trans journey, and his parents are doing a great job and are being really supportive.
I always say this, kids don’t ask to be here — we bring them here. As adults we are held accountable and are responsible to make sure these children are protected and that they feel safe — bare minimum, that’s all you have to do. Part of that is, when you have a child come to you and they’re saying, “Hey, I’m transitioning,” you have to make that space to make sure that they are feeling safe and protected, because if they’re not getting that at home, guess what, there’s a whole world out there that is ten times worse.
Lil Papi is one of the kindest characters on television. Is it a pressure playing someone so, well, wonderful?
Papi has the biggest shoes on planet Earth to fill. Papi’s shoe size is bigger than Shaquille O’Neal’s. But, yeah, there’s a lot of pressure, because, yes, he’s a good man, but I also want to make sure people see him as human, right, because if we see him as human, we see him as relatable, and if we see him as relatable, we see him as a reality. I firmly believe that we need more good men like Papi, that despite, you
“Make room for conversations that are hard — that’s where change happens”
know, his own pain or his own hurt, he’s willing to receive it and make it end right there, because hurt people hurt people… He, to me, is this man that’s able to take on so much and hold that weight and say, “You know what, it ends here.” It creates a new system or cycle, a healthier one, which is why one of the most amazing things [was] that – any time I was going through an emotional scene, or I was trying to do some script analysis, I always had both Steven and Janet come to my ear and give me this beautiful reminder, “Hey, Papi is the male Blanca.”
So true.
That has always stuck with me. I found that very relatable; yeah, he’s a family man who wants to take care of his family, who wants to love on his family. That’s what we need more of. We need more depictions of these Black and brown men that are willing to say, “Hey, the hurt stops here, we’re gonna break this cycle and we’re gonna create a healthy one.”
That was a really poignant answer, so I feel a bit bad about the next question I’m going to ask… There are a lot of appreciative Lil Papi fans out there. Were you prepared – you know what I’m going to say…
[Angel’s face goes into a grimace.]
…to become a sex symbol?
[Angel pulls his t-shirt over his face] No! [Laughs] Oh, man, any time I hear that, I’m, like, who me? In what world? Oh my God. No, I was not prepared. I take it as the world’s biggest compliment. What else can I do? It’s flattering, but it does make me blush. It’s very sweet for people to view me and see me as that, because, yeah, I don’t know.
You should own it and be, like, “I was fully prepared for this — in fact, I thought it would happen fucking sooner.”
[Laughs] I should own it. I’m going to start telling people, “You know what, I’ve been waiting since I got out of the womb for people to call me a sex symbol.”
One of the heart-skip-a-beat storylines – indeed, one of the most progressive storylines – is the romance between Lil Papi and Angel. What were your thoughts when you found out about that character arc?
I was honoured. I have no problem in sharing and saying that Indya is one of the greatest actresses of our generation and I saw that instantly after watching the first season… When I heard that I was [going to be] given the privilege of getting to hold more space and have more scenes with them, I knew it was going to be a big learning and growing experience for me, not only as a person but as an actor. I was excited. I knew it was going to be a ride and that we were going to get to tell some really amazing stories. I think we’ve done that. I think we’ve told a very beautiful story and given a lot of hope and given a love letter to trans women around the world that, hey, love doesn’t have to be this thing in the shadows; it can be this really beautiful thing that the world can embrace, and the world can see.
It is rare for there to be a love story between a trans woman and a straight guy on television. Did you feel a weight on your shoulders to get it right?
There is [a pressure]. Being on the show, period, and telling any story in this setting there is pressure, because, again, we slip up, we’re just as accountable for causing harm. So, how we tell a story, the way we tell it, and how we actors come into the space and use [our] bodies to tell these stories after, you know, our talented writers, such as Steven and Janet, have put their heart and soul onto a page, we have to come in and bring ourselves into it and tell it truthfully. We also have to make sure that, as we’re telling it truthfully, that we’re taking care of the storyline, because it’s bigger than just us and our truth.
You and Indya have done a beautiful job. What do you hope viewers take away from the storyline?
This show is about a lot of things, right? The dynamics of being a trans woman of colour, the dynamics of being a queer person, a queer person of colour. We [also] touch on Aids, we touch on the crack epidemic, but above all we’re telling a story about family and chosen family. That’s the most relatable thing, which brings so many people in. We’re telling a story about family and chosen family and how they can keep us going through all those difficult times when we feel like we have no one; the people we choose, which is just as valid and sometimes thicker than blood if you really flower that relationship. Chosen family can be everything and anything.
I hope this isn’t too personal a question, but I was wondering if your own relationship with Janet informed your performance or thoughts about the romance between Lil Papi and Angel?
One hundred per cent. My relationship with Janet, you know, I came home to this amazing Black trans woman who was so open and so vulnerable on so many levels, and so willing to share her experiences and open herself up to me so that I can really, really see her in all her colours and all her emotions. All that ever did was make me want to take better care and more care of the Black trans women on set, because I had this amazing woman that I want to love on, that I want to take care of, that I want to see grow and see prosper and keep protected and safe in this world that often does not take care of and protect Black trans women.
And so it was highly informative and influential and my then showing up to set and wanting to love Mj, Dominique, Hailie [Sahar, aka Lulu], Angelica [Ross, aka Candy] and Indya, and make sure that they felt loved and safe, because we live in a world where they might feel safe on the set, but the second they’re off the set, this world, let’s be honest, it’s still brutally murdering Black trans women, just for being Black trans women. I wanted to make sure that I was always going above and beyond to make sure that they felt loved, safe and protected, at least when I had the opportunity to hold space with them on and off set.
OK, so I’ve reached the conclusion that you are as lovely as Papi.
[Laughs] Get out of here, Stich.
Now that you can spread your wings, Angel, what is your dream role?
I would love to play a superhero of some kind, but not the clean-cut superheroes that we tend to see on screen nowadays. I want to see a superhero from the ghetto, baby, because we all need that.
What would your superpower be?
Ooh, I’d love to unlock every per cent of my brain. I feel like there is something there; I heard we only have access to, like, 10 per cent of our brain. Could you imagine what we would be capable of if we could unlock one hundred per cent of our brains?
I thought you were going to say super-powered colouring-in skills.
[Laughs] That’s the superpower that’s attainable for me now. I’ll continue to colour in the lines!
“We’re telling a story about chosen family and how they can keep us going”