9 Joker and Murray Franklin
Todd Phillips: Our movie has a little bit about the need for television. That need for adulation, the need to be recognised and seen and stop being invisible. That’s why so many people end up on television in whatever reality show. That need to feel like you’re part of something.
Ian Freer: In some ways, Joker’s fascination with the effects of television echoes a ’70s flick like Network. There’s a shot of multiple TV screens, each relaying footage of prior violence that reeks of Sidney Lumet’s film. Yet the scene itself has further echoes. Arthur comes on dancing to the show, fully his Joker persona, settles in his chair and, after admitting he killed the Wayne Enterprises employees, shoots Murray (Robert De Niro) in the face for laughing at his stand-up. For some, the moment has its roots in Frank Miller’s 1986 The Dark Knight Returns where he goes on the David Endocrine Show to prove his sanity and then kills the host and audience with Joker gas. Still, whatever, the references, the shooting of Murray remains shocking.
Todd Phillips: It was intimidating, to say the least, to kill Robert De Niro. First of all, I don’t want to see Robert De Niro get killed. I love him more than anybody, he’s my favourite actor of all time. That’s not something to take lightly. It’s a lot to do that. But De Niro understood what we were going for, understood the script, we didn’t surprise him on the day. It was intimidating to meet him because I’m such a fan. I know so many of his movies inside and out. I truly remember them better than he does. When you make them, how many times does he really watch them? So I had to get over that quickly. But it wasn’t lost on me that, “Oh my God, Jake Lamotta is sitting in that chair?” Then I’ve got Joaquin in the other chair. It was surreal. But you get over it pretty quick. It’s something I won’t soon forget.
Ian Freer: There are lots of online theories that posit De Niro’s Murray Franklin is actually an older version of Rupert Pupkin, De Niro’s character from The King Of Comedy, under a pseudonym. If there’s little that gives it credence — Phillips has categorically denied it — Joker certainly keys into the awkwardness, desperation and delusional quality of Pupkin’s character. The latter’s catch-phrase — “It’s better to be king for a night than schmuck for a lifetime” — is a veritable tag-line for Arthur Fleck’s life.
Todd Phillips: On the Murray show he is living the life he feels like he was meant to live, which is to be a psychopath [laughs], but at least he’s free.