No./8 A double act for the ages

Joaquin Phoenix and newcomer Woody Norman on sharing the screen in comedy-drama C’MON C’MON

THE LAST TIME we saw Joaquin Phoenix on screen, he was on psychopathic, Oscarwinning form in Joker. His follow-up couldn’t be more different: in Mike Mills’ latest gentle comedy-drama, C’mon C’mon, Phoenix plays Johnny, a radio producer who becomes a father figure to his nephew Jesse (played by 11-year-old British newcomer Woody Norman) when a family emergency temporarily takes his parents out of the equation. The pair spoke to Empire about a fruitful acting collaboration, despite their four-decade age gap. How did you first meet — was it in an audition?

Woody Norman: Well, I flew to LA to do a chemistry test with Joaquin. We did the chemistry test and we clicked. It was very fun.

Joaquin Phoenix: Yeah — Woody has enough chemistry for both of us. So that was that. And then we didn’t see each other again. The moment that our characters meet [in the film] was the second time that we ever met.

Is it true you wrestled with each other the first time you met? Norman: Yes, that did happen! When we did the

chemistry test. I used to be very into WWE and have wrestling matches on the trampoline.

Phoenix: That’s right! So you told us that story, and then we just played around with a scene in which we were pretending to be wrestlers. And then that worked its way into the film. What was it like getting to know each other on screen, literally as the characters got to know each other?

Norman: We grew as Jesse and Johnny grew. So that was very special to the film and it gave it a lot of charm.

Phoenix: Yeah, I mean, honestly, it wasn’t necessarily important to me whether I was getting to know Woody. I mean, Woody, does a very convincing American accent. My experience was that I was getting to know Jesse. It’s pretty striking because Woody is very different from Jesse. Since we finished, I’ve realised what a distinct character he had created and embodied. It’s become even more impressive now, after the fact.

Do you have a highlight from the shoot? Phoenix:

I would say one thing, for me personally, that stands out: there’s a scene in the pharmacy in which I lose him, and when I find him, I’m very frightened and you scream, “Leave me alone,” or, “Get off me,” or something like that. That was the first moment in which Jesse was expressing this other side of him that we hadn’t yet seen. I don’t know if I’m projecting, but I recognised this thing of a young actor discovering their instrument, and the possibilities of what that can do. I remember those moments in my early career. That was really powerful for me, to see the birth of that moment in a young actor. It reminded me of what I love about acting.

Do you remember that moment as well, Woody? Norman:

Yes, I do remember filming that, and I remember asking him if he was okay.

Phoenix: Was it a cool moment for you? Am I projecting, or did it feel like you were discovering something new about the character?

Norman: Well, before I was very nervous about screaming in films. But that really made me very comfortable with it.

Phoenix: I always struggled with that also. And then when I unlocked it, it was like I found another voice. That was a pretty amazing moment to witness in somebody else, in a young actor.