Your letters
Research conundrums, and a few lucky breaks
Jumping for joy
In FT September (page 56), I found a great help: ‘Twiglets’ by diarist Gill Shaw.
Generally I skim through items and if something takes my attention, I go back to the start to take it all in. I did just that with that article. Came to the word Openshaw and jumped for joy! It has been a head scratching time trying to find Openshaw in the various old and new maps in the house. Now I know it is a mile down the road from Gorton! Thank you so much for the help Gill Shaw.
My uncle, mum’s brother, married Lily Callaghan from Openshaw in August 1934. What a stroke of luck buying the issue in preparation for my doing a U3A family history class. I have always wanted to, though not had the time, to research my family. Especially as the only dates I have are of immediate family and my paternal grandfather. Here I am at 70 and no living relatives alive. Lucky to have a few photos that have helped and I am regretting not having taken more notice of things earlier. Though most of the older generation other than my mother and father had died before I was 10.
So to anyone who has not already done it – please do speak to your relations about their lives and their children etc. Even if you go no further back than your own grandmothers and fathers. It will be of interest for your grandchildren perhaps.
Oh! And do please put information on photographs. That’s how I have managed to gain some addresses and dates of my grandparents. When we are gone and the digital album is scoured for info, will it give you the help needed to even know who is in the picture least of all where it was taken?
Thank you again for the snippet of info that has helped me go forward even the tiniest bit – what a relief.
Anna Palmer Editor: What a stroke of luck, and here’s hoping that your good fortune continues now that you’re researching your family tree. Welcome to the best hobby in the world!
Not so ‘invisible’ people
Re: Adèle Emm’s article ‘Invisible People’ (FT November 2020).
Alan Tunnicliffe of Christchurch, New Zealand, recorder of the Powick/ Powicke clan (of which I also claim membership), has brought my attention to Adèle Emm’s helpful article on where to look for elusive ancestors. She mentions my great-aunt Gertrude Powicke as an example of how a young person can ‘disappear’ from the family register in a census enumeration. Gertrude and her elder sister Agnes were both pupils at Milton Mount College in Kent at the time of the 1901 Census (not 1891; Gertrude was born in 1887). The college educated the daughters of Congregationalist ministers. The girls’ father was the minister in charge of Hatherlow Congregationalist church in Cheshire.
Adèle Emm also indicates how a name can travel from one ‘block’ of information, such as WWI memorials, to another, such as the national census. My great-aunt is indeed among the few women to have their names recorded on local WWI war memorials: Stockport and Heaton Moor and Manchester University’s war memorial, in her case. This is not because she was active in any of the nursing or women’s auxiliary services, but for her service in the Friends’ War Victims’ Relief Committee first in northeastern France, then in Poland, where she died of typhus in Warsaw
‘Part of a family historian’s role is to ensure we keep memories alive’
in December 1919. (She is buried in Warsaw.) The tragedy of her death far from home clearly entered into the general feeling of loss and sacrifice among her local community. Her name is included also in the Roll of Honour of the Five Sisters window in York Minster unveiled in June 1925 as a memorial to over 1,000 women who gave their lives in WWI.
My memoir Displaced by War: Gertrude Powicke and Quaker Relief in France and Poland 1915-1919, based on my great-aunt’s letters and diaries, was published in 2015.
Susan Pares Editor: On receiving Susan’s email we got in touch with Adèle, who writes: ‘One of my ambitions is for relatives to contact me informing me that someone I’ve written about (but no relation at all to me) is in one of my articles or books. And here we are! I’m deliriously delighted to find Gertrude has living relatives.
‘I first encountered Gertrude about 10 years ago rummaging in local newspapers in Stockport library and discovered the reports of her 1919 death. Gertrude is also the heroine in one of my blogs, and has featured in some of my suffragist talks because she called herself one (I am delivering a ‘Why I am a suffragist not a suffragette’ talk with the Society of Genealogists in January – sadly, I doubt there’s room for Gertrude).
‘I’d already decided to put a cross on Heaton Moor war memorial next year alongside one for the 17 year old boy who lived in the house next door to me here. He has no living relatives. Paraphrasing Jean Paul Sartre, “you’re only dead when no-one remembers you”. I believe part of a family historian’s role is to ensure we keep memories alive and reincarnate ordinary people even after they’ve been dead for centuries.
Can you point to the place?
I am hoping that a Family Tree reader will be able to identify the country, or even precise location, where this photograph, produced as a postcard, was taken during the First World War.
It shows German soldiers in the grounds of a military hospital. Do the clothes/uniforms of the nurses indicate they are in Germany or perhaps France? Does the uniform of the ‘officer’, in the centre of the front row, offer any clues?
If in Germany, I believe this is simply a photo taken at a WWI German Military Hospital; but if the nurses or the man obviously in charge ‘look French’, this is likely to be a group of wounded German prisoners of war recovering at a POW hospital in France.
I am fairly sure this photo was not taken in Britain – the nurses are not in Red Cross uniforms. There were, however, camps and hospitals holding German POWS in Europe that were managed by British military personnel and had French or other European nurses. If the latter case the ‘officer’ could be in the Royal Defence Corps, some soldiers of which served in France during WWI.
Colin R Chapman Editor: An intriguing picture – let’s hope that someone can share some insights.
Making contact To get in touch with any of our letter-writers, please email helen.t@familytree.co.uk and we will forward your correspondence
Strange middle names cont.
I read with interest the editor’s reply, under the heading ‘Strange Middle Names’, to the letter from Sue Broadway on page 73 of the August issue of Family Tree as I had been struggling for some time with a similar problem.
I have instances where the first and second forenames and occupations are repeated down four generations of the male side of the family (see partial family tree above).
Now over the years it seems that both sides of my tree have followed the general rule that the father’s family name is used as a forename for the first born son and the mother’s family name is used as a forename for the first born daughter.
On this principle I’ve spent many hours, without success, trying to discover a point where a ‘Coulter’ married into the Little/lyttle family. Thus the editor’s suggestion that the origin of some forenames may include the surname of an employer, a person of note or even that of a respected friend opened up new lines of enquiry.
However, this may be difficult as I haven’t any family contacts to which I can refer this line of enquiry.
A number of sources note that Coulter is a common surname, mainly in counties Antrim and Down and that ‘most Coulters in Ulster are undoubtedly descendants of the 17th century Scottish protestant planters’. However, it is also a fact that a steady flow of individual immigrants, in both directions, between the two countries has occurred over the centuries because of their close proximity.
I’ve researched the foundries that existed in the nineteenth century in Belfast without finding one owned or run by a ‘Coulter’.
However, while this new line of enquiry hasn’t produced results as yet I do know that DCL3 emigrated to Little Bolton for a number of years in the 1880s to the1890s and lived in Albert Street. At the bottom of this street was School Hill located on which was the James Chadwick’s Iron Foundry Ltd. and unfortunately the records only contain the details of office staff. He returned to Belfast in time for the 1911 Census.
I’ve not been able to determine the specific reason why this move to Little Bolton was made. At first I thought it may have been to visit relatives but I could not find any proof of this. However, on reading books on the social and political scene in Belfast at the time I can understand a possible reason for making the move; so why return after such a short time? Again after making a similar study of social and political of that time in Lancashire I can see that he might consider the exchange of location was not a great idea.
Dan Little Editor: Although it must be frustrating not to be able to pin down the reason for the Coulter name in your family, your background research into why people moved towns, and even countries, does sound very interesting, and handy for getting a better feel for their lives, so a good use of time.
Can you solve Guy’s puzzle?
My great-great-grandfather Richard Etchells (police constable) and his wife seem to have two children named Alice born roughly a year apart. Nothing strange there but when we look at their baptisms (both at the same church) we find:
1. Alice Etchells, baptised 2 March 1874, born 18 September 1871, abode 3 Chemic street, father’s occupation Police Constable.
2. Alice Etchells, baptised 31 August 1879, born 23 September 1872, abode 3 Chemic street, father’s occupation Constable.
This Alice [2] was baptised with her brother Albert born 1876, is this simply a case of forgetting if she had been baptised before and an error with the dates or was there a daughter who died before the 1881 Census?
There is a marriage of Alice Etchells to James Hayes in 1899, but there is no occupation for her father Richard Etchells, however the 1901 Census shows Richard as retired so I cannot rule him out so easily as he may have retired and had no occupation when Alice married (is this the correct marriage, Richard Etchells is not an uncommon name in the Manchester area)?
Looking at census the 1881 shows only one Alice (9 years old). The ages for her parents and siblings are correct but one of her siblings is missing: Albert!
Albert and Alice [2] were baptised
Albert and Alice were baptised together in1879. Were they baptised because they were ill and it was thought they might die?
together in 1879. Were they baptised because they were ill and it was thought they might die?
Searching FREEBMD, the GRO Index and the Online Parish Clerks for Lancashire do not show any relevant deaths for either Alice or Albert.
Checking the 1891 Census shows one daughter Alice and also Albert has re-appeared, does this mean that perhaps he and his sister Alice were ill and hopitalised at the time of the 1881 Census or he was in hospital and his sister was not as ill as first thought and recovered; this though would point to there being an error on the 1879 baptism and there was only one Alice [2].
However there is a complication here, as though the parents’ ages and the age of Alice [2] fit, Albert’s age is one year out (born in March).
Check again the date of the 1891 Census (5/6th April 1891 ), and there is a further complication. I only have baptism dates for the parents and
though Alice [2’s] age and her father’s age would be accurate (father baptised in August), the mother’s age would be one year out as she was baptised in March.
So the questions I have are:
• Why was Albert’s baptism delayed, was this due to them moving house due his father being a policeman?
• It doesn’t seem so as the 1871, 1881 and 1891 all show the family at 3 Chemic Street.
• Was Alice baptised twice, if so was there an outbreak of childhood illnesses, such as measles or scarlet fever, in the area that could have put Alice and Albert in danger in 1879? If so would the recovery time of any such illness stretch to 3/4th April 1881?
• Would school records give any clues; are any available?
• Would hospital records give any clues; are any available? I believe there was only one Alice in this family group but cannot be certain. Something certainly happened in 1879 to cause the dual baptism of Alice and Albert, but what?
Guy Etchells Editor: This is tantalising, Guy particularly at a time when we are all well reminded of how dangerous outbreaks of diseases can be. If anyone has a moment of insight, please do email in and we will share your thoughts on a future letters page.
Just a (very useful) thought
I have just read Gill Shaw’s FT November episode of her Leah research. Harry Leah who went to Australia in 1912. I spotted on the passenger list, below that of the Leah family, Mr A Jackson, a 25 year old gardener. Could this be the Mr Jackson that Harry’s daughter Eva married? Just a thought.
I am probably not the only one that has noticed this.
I do enjoy reading Twiglets as it is all in Manchester. My husband was brought up in Wythenshawe (born in Chorlton) went to college in Openshaw. He knows all the places that get mentioned. Keep up the good work Gill and look forward to the next episode.
Anne Lowe
Editor: On receiving Anne’s letter, we got in touch with Gill. Gill Shaw writes: ‘Wow, I’m sure you’re absolutely spot on here, and no, I hadn’t noticed Mr A Jackson on the passenger list. That’s brilliant, thank you! ‘It’s funny because I found Eva’s marriage in Australia in 1913 to Enos Jackson, and I just thought “Ooh, what a good old Australian sounding name”. When I searched and found that he was born in Manchester, I was a tiny bit disappointed, but I hadn’t got as far as
looking for him in the passenger records. If I had, it would have been a bit deja vu, wouldn’t it!
‘I’m really glad that you enjoy my ramblings, and it’s nice to hear your husband knows many of the places. ‘Thanks again for getting in touch Anne – your eagle eyes have helped me fill out a little more of the never-ending puzzle!’
A quick hop back in time
Sometimes Family Tree solves problems without having to do any work at all, thank you.
I started writing to you with a ‘please help with my brick wall’ letter and did some checking to make sure I had all my facts correct. Then I found that since I’d last checked on Ancestry, Findmypast etc more records had been added. A quick click produced a picture of the grave of my elusive ancestor giving his dates which immediately showed that the remotely-possible-but-pretty-unlikely person that I’d rather ignored for years really is my 3x great-grandfather and it’s a quick hop to go two further generations back.
Angela Hamilton Editor: It’s a nice – and surprising – feeling isn’t it, when a few pieces of the puzzle slot themselves into place. Glad to hear about your discovery, and a reminder to us all to keep checking – as more records do keep getting added to the web all the time.
Forest of Dean Local History Society
I thought other people with connections to the area might like to know about the following items relating to the Forest of Dean. First up Forest of Dean Local History Society; next up God’s Beautiful Sunshine book by Ian Wright published by Bristol Radical Pamphlets about the 1921 miners’ strike and how it affected the Forest. The Forest at War published by Forest of Dean Local History society about the First World War and
Unearthed: the History of Bream Flower Show 1865-2015 by Ian Hendy – even my 3x great-grandfather William Miles is mentioned as he helped start the society. I hope these may interest readers – they’re all a great read.
Darren Editor: Thanks for the leads Darren. Recommended reads are always very welcome to hear of. If anyone else would like to suggest a good book, give their local or family history society or group a pat on the back, or share anything else they value having in their family history lives, just drop us a line.
A quick click produced a picture of the grave of my elusive ancestor giving his dates which immediately showed that the remotelypossible-but-pretty-unlikely person really is my 3x great-grandfather
Remembrancer of the Gibb/s
I have the honour of being the latest in a long line of remembrancers (chroniclers) of the family. As such I am the first to have to face the perils of the modern world where total rubbish is published an accepted as fact. The Gibb/s family name is often said by many to be a diminutive of the German name Gilbert or an accent Pectish name. It is in fact a much older name and came to England in 1066. Duke William not only had an Abbey built to commemorate his win but a list of those who fought for him prepared and filed at the Abbey. If you go to Battle Abbey you will see that the name of the family is recorded there. The ancient arms of the family is three battle axes on a coloured background of white/red/ black and blue denoting the family line. My second proof comes from the Vatican. Robert Guibe became Cardinal of France in 1505. The records of the Vatican show that during his life he made his sister’s son a Bishop. His nephew Francois (Andre) Hamon being a young man decided to have his own arms made. Now he had to keep within what was permitted by the heralds. He chose to have arms of four quarters – two for his father showing the Hamon Hunting Horn and two for his mother being three battle axes on a red background. Now both of these proofs are unimpeachable I am sure you would agree. I would add that the name Gibson does not mean Son of Gibb as if that were true why is Gibson DNA P whereas the Gibb Halotype is R? Incidentally, the S on the name is optional and in fact one of my predecessors removed the S from his name after discovering that the original name did not have a S attached. Any queries?
Richard Gibb Editor: That’s interesting to hear of the origins and the DNA insights too. If anyone would like to add to the Gibb/s conversation, or indeed share information about another surname, please get in touch.
Richard is right that we are the first generation of family historians to have to deal with the rapidity with which mistakes can mushroom on family trees, due to the ease of sharing and copying information online. However, it would also be interesting to hear from anyone who has found mistakes in published pedigrees and family histories created in the pre-internet world too. The optimist in me hopes that the fact that ‘original’ records (in digital format) are so readily available online should give us all the opportunity to raise our game and compile better family histories than those created in eras where information was less accessible. It’s up to all of us to be discerning.