OUR LADY J.
The Pose writer and activist speaks to friend Munroe Bergdorf about trans visibility and the success of Ryan Murphy’s critically-acclaimed series.
The Pose writer and producer speaks to Munroe Bergdorf on the criticallyacclaimed series and trans representation in the entertainment industry.
Last year, FX drama Pose – the latest show on Ryan Murphy’s ever-expanding roster – premiered to universal acclaim and made history with the largest cast of trans actors on television. The series, which follows the world of ball-culture in 1987, was renewed for a second season and subsequently received nominations at the Golden Globe Awards and Critics Choice Awards. Writer and producer, Our Lady J – who has also provided her talents to the Amazon comedy-drama Transparent – caught up with her friend and activist Munroe Bergdorf to discuss the success of Pose, and how she drew from her experiences as a HIV-positive trans woman to create one of the most authentic shows on television.
Munroe Bergdorf: Hey babe! So you must be over the moon with the reception Pose has received. Was that expected?
Our Lady J: We never knew what to expect. We just knew that we wanted to make something that was real, something that was really human and had heart and soul to it, but also something fun and entertaining that could educate. Having Ryan Murphy behind it, I knew that this was going to be something because Ryan knows how to make a hit. MB: When you first went into those meetings to discuss what you wanted to do, what were your first initial thoughts?
OLJ: 2005 was the first time I came out as trans, and so a lot of my sisters and family members from the scene in New York had grew up during this period of time. I had heard stories of the late 80s in New York and I had been to a few balls, but most of what I knew was from Paris is Burning, which was an important documentary for me as a trans person. So I was immediately interested in the context of Pose, that it would be further exploring the ballroom scene but with fictional characters. When I went into that room and I met Ryan Murphy and all the producers, what really got my attention was Ryan’s promise to hire trans people of colour in every department. And when Ryan said he was talking to Janet Mock, I was like, ‘Oh, Ryan means business,’ because Janet is the real deal. She is a fierce advocate and incredible writer so I was in immediately. I said, ‘Where do I sign?’
MB: Amazing. Through your writer’s voice, we’ve seen issues about the trans community and HIV/ AIDS. Were they the first topics that came into your mind in the writer’s room?
OLJ: Those are the things that I have the most experience with, and dating men who are attracted to trans women is very frustrating. The fact is, if someone is attracted to women, they’re in general attracted to cisgender and trans women, but they’re usually not woke around their attraction to trans women until they meet a trans woman. You find that there’s just a lot of unnecessary shame, and when you really dig deep to the root of the shame, it’s systemic transphobia that they’re encountering and forced to look at in their life. I found that to really limit my options in dating and as an artist, I wanna tell stories that are passionate and real. But as an activist, I wanna tell people stories that help people live their lives. So it seemed to be an intersection of both of those things, where I could really tell an honest story of what it’s like to be a trans woman who’s dating, and also as an HIV positive woman, I knew I could really add that element to the storyline as well. I found out I was positive 15 years ago and I became an accidental activist in that area when I realised that a lot of doors were suddenly closed. I’ve been undetectable for just as long and undetectable is untransmittable. That’s something that people are just now learning. The virus itself doesn’t really affect my life, besides taking care of myself and taking medication. However, there’s all this stigma that I face on a daily basis, especially in dating. So in 1987 when we begin Pose, it’s really the birth of that stigma, and I knew that there was an opportunity to do a lot of work to examine how that stigma came around and what we can do to eradicate that stigma in 2019.
MB: What has the feedback been on those storylines? Because they’re storylines that I feel you tell the most authentically. With Transparent as well, you can really hear your voice. As your friend, I could feel the intention behind your words through the characters. You must have had such amazing feedback?
OLJ: It’s really great. I started my career as a performer in front of the camera and one of the things that I found difficult was separating art from identity. But being a writer and producer on a show, I’m really enjoying this separation and being able to have a voice without being the voice. I feel it’s so much safer to explore things that are terrifying to me because I know it’s not going to be my face attached to that. I get to admit mistakes that I don’t want to admit to when I’m writing fiction. Our characters stumble and fall, but that’s what adds to their humanity and their depth.
MB: That’s what adds to our depth as well.
OLJ: Yeah, it’s nice, and in the age of social media and everything being online, everything is so literal right now. We don’t allow each other to stumble and fall. There’s no grace in our mistakes, and so I’ve found my remedy to that is going into fiction. Maybe I’ll return to something that’s more autobiographical, but losing myself in these characters and living life through them, really enriched my life in ways that I never expected.
MB: Well it’s enriched our lives as well. Speaking from personal viewing with Transparent and Shea’s storyline with Josh...
OLJ: That was a hard one to write, can I be honest? Bridget Bedard wrote that episode and she did it so beautifully. When we breaking the story together though, it was something that I was living. Transparent was very much like, ‘Okay go live your life and then tell us about it and we’ll put it on TV.’ [Laughs] Pose is definitely different than that, but with Transparent, I was very frustrated with dating as a trans, HIV-positive person, yet knowing that PrEP is out there. Condoms are enough to keep you from transmitting HIV or from catching HIV, but people still don’t believe that. You know, what else do you have to do? ‘Well there’s PrEP.’ ‘Okay,