In The Chair: Matt Gray
The C64 musician looks back at his fascinating career
Did you have any formal musical training? No, none. Apart from basic stuff in music class at secondary school.
When did you start using computers to make your music?
I started using a computer to make music in 1985. It was really basic ideas on the Spectrum and also the school computers. But by 1986 I was making music on the C64 using software like Electrosound, and then Soundmonitor and Rockmonitor.
Your younger brother, Lou, also made a few C64 tunes, how is he doing?
He carried on making music in his spare time. He got married and settled down and has a daughter.
Was there a particular method you used to create a tune?
Just me working out chords and melodies on my little Casio keyboard then coding it into my player. Building things up from what I could hear in my head. Sometimes just stumbling upon new sounds through experimentation. But no hard and fast rules then.
What was being on Compunet like in those early days?
In hindsight it was amazing, really. To go from being isolated in your own world making music on the C64 in your home in the middle of nowhere to suddenly being connected to people either in the games industry or trying to get into the games industry. And it was still quite a niche exclusive community because not many people were inclined to buy a modem and tie up their phone line at considerable cost really. Did you like hearing your music used in demos? Yes. It was great to get some validation on what I was doing, however large or small that was. I suppose it’s comparable to making a social media post that takes off. That’s what people are aiming for in the same respect. A little bit of validation and feedback.
How did you start working for Dalali Software? That came directly through the Compunet community and as a result of music I’d put up or had put up in demos. They were based in Croydon which was literally 25 minutes from my town, so I went off to meet them one evening after work via a lift from my Dad, came away with my first commission and stopped off in a decent restaurant on the way home.
Is it true that the Mean Streak music is not played correctly?
That is true unfortunately. The modulation routines
Rewind to 1986 and a young Matt Gray spends his days as an office clerk, writing music on the C64 by night. Those early demos were uploaded to Compunet and eventually netted him his first job in the industry. During the Nineties Matt’s career took a different turn, leading him to cofound the songwriting team Xenomania. The international hit Believe by Cher, famous for its electronic vocal style, was cowritten and produced by Matt Gray. Matt would then go on to work with Girls Aloud and many other stars before returning to his roots and announcing an exciting remix project known as Reformation that would take him back to the music he wrote in the Eighties – and back to the SID chip.
either were not coded or simply didn’t work. I’d written it on another player but it needed to be a much more streamlined bit of code to work in the game. I hadn’t made enough headway with my own player at that stage so the coders at Dalali imported my tune into their own code. I’ve recently found the original version I submitted so I may put that out there at some point.
Did you enjoy working on Yogi Bear?
Whilst it wasn’t really the kind of music I was hoping to be making, I just treated it as a bit of fun really. You have to do that occasionally, especially in remixing. Some of the bigger fees I’ve had have been for the naffest projects. But Yogi was fine. No problem.
Your tune for Driller is memorable and epic. How long did it take to create?
Took several weeks on and off. The Great Storm in October 1987 curtailed it for well over a week as we had no power during that time. But it was mainly a smooth production process. No creative brick walls on that one at all.
There was a problem with the Driller music being played too fast…
Yes, which I didn’t become aware of for many years. I actually prefer the faster version these days, but I know others think the slower one is better. What events led to the Quedex commission from Thalamus?
That came about through Compunet. I had done some demos with Paul ‘Dokk’ Docherty and Graham Hunter, and one of the tracks came to Paul Cooper’s attention as Dokk was doing the loading screen for Quedex. They used my track in its Soundmonitor format for the loader and asked me to do the in-game tracks and sound FX too. So shortly after Paul Cooper and Stavros Fasoulas drove to my home and Stavros uploaded his work in progress on my C64 and we discussed the music and FX. If I’d have been more PR savvy I’d have taken some photos of the meeting.
Your next Thalamus game was Hunter’s Moon. Did you work closely with Martin Walker, who went on to write music himself?
More closely than most developers. I spoke to Martin a fair amount on the phone about the music and the game. I knew he was interested in developing his own music player when he had time, so I figured that would be the last Martin Walker game I’d be providing music for. But it went well and the game was a good success.
Was it difficult to make a living?
Well I was only part-time at this stage. I still had my office clerk wages and was working on music at night and weekends. If I had have been full-time it would have been a volatile wage vehicle.
Did you have problems getting paid or credited? Getting paid freelance was very haphazard then, still is. The only times I was completely left out of pocket were towards the end of the C64 era with so many firms going into liquidation. Musicians were at the back of the queue when the receivers came in. Credit-wise it was mostly okay, though I was miffed I didn’t get a credit for my music on a little NES game called Micro Machines. And the missing small royalty I’d agreed. Probably missed a tidy sum there.
What prompted you to create your own music routine, and what made it different?
I basically needed to code my own routine to have any chance of a career in games music at that time. If you couldn’t adapt your code as required then you were not going to be much use to developers. I suppose my routine was different in that I approached the modulation routines differently to others. I think we all did. Your routine is almost like your personalised instrument. If I was starting it now, I’d probably have invested more time in even more mod routines and ideas, but it is what it is and did me fine.
A call from Mark Cale at System 3 saw you write music for Bangkok Knights. Was this a big break? It was. 1987 was drawing to a close, I was bored in my day job and I’d had a quick run of commissions and wanted to take the leap into full-time self-employment. BK was a real baptism of fire. One of those moments where you either grab the bull by the horns or capitulate with fear. I had just a few days to turn it around and luckily I hit the ground running and had the bulk of it done within a day or two. The success of it led directly to the offer of working on all of System 3’s games for at least the next 12 months and their next game they needed a lot of music for was Last Ninja 2.
Last Ninja 2 drew on a wide range of influences, including Tangerine Dream and Bomb the Bass. Did you come up with the ideas yourself or in collaboration with the team?
Whilst I went to meetings and discussed things with
I basically needed to code my own routine to have any chance of a career in games Matt Gray
the team at System 3, I went with what I wanted to hear. We discussed not doing clichéd Oriental tracks, but in the end I just went with what came out.
What was it like to work on an iconic game we are still talking about 30 years later?
At the time it was great to be working on a sequel to such a success, but I wasn’t aware that it would have such an impact as it did. I probably read two or three reviews of it after release, just to see what was said about the music, but I don’t remember any fireworks if the music was mentioned. I certainly was not aware of the effect the soundtrack had on so many gamers of the era. It was a slow-moving world back then. Information didn’t travel very fast or at all pre-internet.
Were there any games you really wanted to produce the music for, but never got the chance to do so?
Well, if things had moved quicker I’m sure I would have done Last Ninja 3. Basically, directly after LN2 I was twiddling my thumbs for several months doing conversions for Out Run and After Burner that were never used. It was only later in 1988 that I started on Tusker and then Dominator early 1989. I remember being quite frustrated in the summer of 1988 with nothing to get my teeth into. LN2 had been completed between late January and May. I’d have preferred something original to work on, but had to wait until September for Tusker. So, yes if we had not have parted ways in March 1989 I’d have liked to have done LN3. But hey, the Maniacs Of Noise had arrived on the scene and Reyn Ouwehand’s work on LN3 was ace.
Several budget release games from Codemasters are in your back catalogue. What were they like to work for?
Codemasters were really great to work for. David and Richard Darling had been very helpful to me since I met them at the Olympia Computer show. I know I was impressed by their rapid success and they kept in contact until I was finally able to produce something for them with Fruit Machine Simulator. Literally a oneevening job, but it led to other jobs from them such as
Pro BMX and later in 1989/1990 to the NES games Micro Machines and Treasure Island Dizzy (also C64). They had a great setup in Banbury in a converted farm and, in hindsight, I was foolish to turn down a full-time job there – partly because I didn’t want to move 100 miles from where I was. They had a great working environment mixing work and play. Obviously they went on to be a massive company before they all sold up. But, yes I liked them and really admired their approach and success.
Deliverance was your last SID tune, what made you stop?
Well, apart from it being a commission that fell under a receivership process before I could get paid, it was also looking like the C64 was losing its market share. And by now, I was getting into dance music production and trying to look towards record producing.
What were the toughest deadlines that you had to work with?
Some were ‘we need it tomorrow’ or in three days. Bangkok Knights loader was probably the toughest as I knew it was a big opportunity. Like getting called up for England at a day’s notice, maybe?
Did you – and do you still – play a lot of videogames yourself?
I used to but once I started making the music, not so much. I’m a bad games player really.
After working on the Commodore 64 music scene for a while, did ever you consider moving over to the Amiga?
Yes, but I was strangely put off by the change in sound chip and language. I wanted the SID to go hand in hand with the new machine, but it didn’t and that put me off. A lack of enthusiasm for learning new code and making the new player, and a lack of faith in the industry. When companies around you are going bust, it’s very easy at the time to think the whole thing was just a passing fad. Never been more wrong in my life about that. How did you go from computer games to songwriting team Xenomania?
I had started making dance music and having some small success on the underground scene putting out my own tracks. Then I got some remix commissions from Deconstruction Records, who wanted to sign an EP I’d had a Cool Cuts number one with called Fantasise/the Slam. So I’d started working out of a local studio with the guy who owned it, Steve who’d played with Billy Ocean. We made some other tracks together and started a group Motiv8, for which I came up with the name. One of our tracks was called Rockin’ For Myself which we did in several versions, but by 1994 I had be spending so much time at his studio I wasn’t really earning any money. I was skint and had to take a full-time job, which meant I was spending less time working on music at the studio. But after a year or so working with other record companies and publishers I eventually returned to Motiv8 to help with remixing which had really taken off. And by then Steve was working with a guy I had met briefly a year or two before, which was Brian Higgins. We seemed to hit it off and gradually Steve turned up less and less leaving us to do all the work. Brian had decided to start up on his own and decided to leave – and shortly after that I joined him over in his new studio which became Xenomania in spring 1996.
How many of the stars that Xenomania wrote for did you meet?
Most of them, apart from the ones they worked with during periods I was not there. I’ve recorded and worked with too many stars to list really but apart from Girls Aloud and Sugababes, there were Kylie, Pet Shop Boys, Dannii Minogue, Alesha Dixon, Holly Valance and Natalie Imbruglia. In more recent times I worked with new up and coming stars such as MNEK who is doing really well now with several hits under his belt. And he is a lovely easy guy to work with. Just a big variety of artists really, from long established ones such as
Phil Oakey and Edwyn Starr to the latest signings. You could bump into any number of famous people in that place. In one room could be a member of Girls Aloud and in another could be Franz Ferdinand, or even the legend, Johnny Marr.
Recently you have attended some retro events in the UK. How has it been coming face to face with your fans?
Yes, it’s been great to meet fans from all over the world. It’s also been great to finally meet the likes of Rob Hubbard and Ben Daglish at these events. [It has been] really interesting talking with those guys.
What prompted the Reformation remix album? I’d been pondering the idea for almost a year. Chris Abbott had suggested it was something people would like to hear, but initially I was fairly full-on in the studio with pop tracks. Fast-forward a year and I had more time available and I thought if I don’t do it now, I never will. So we just cracked on with it.
Has the Kickstarter been difficult?
It’s difficult in that if you think about the sheer amount of work to do, sometimes it can almost overwhelm you. And because it really does take months of work you go through different states of mind and personal life stuff. I naturally hate the winter and it hates me back. So I find it can get tough going during those months. The spring is always great for productivity, I find. But I guess it’s different for everyone.
one stretch goal was writing new SID tunes. How has it been going back to three voices?
It’s been tougher than I thought. In my heyday I was desperate to get my hands on better sounds and synths, so to me the SID was a stepping stone. So going back to it now feels a bit like going back to school or back to your first job. It’s interesting at first but eventually you come back to why you moved on first time around. But I’m pleased with the new SID tunes for the album and I’ve done a few others for the The64 project and also the Hunter’s Moon 30th Anniversary project for Thalamus. It’s just taken much longer than I would have taken 30 years ago.
With the second Reformation album you are remixing more of other peoples’ tunes – what’s that like?
That’s been really good. I did a few remixes for a bonus CD on the first album and I really enjoyed it. In some ways it’s easier because I’m not attached to the track in the same way I am for my own stuff. It’s been cool adding in ideas and sections to tracks I grew up with and loved.
What persuaded you to take part in Hunter’s Moon Remastered (huntersmoongame.co.uk) for the C64, from the relaunched Thalamus Digital? They asked me. That’s the short answer. But also because they were adding in new levels and an intro so it was a chance to add to the soundtrack.
How do you view the development of computer music, from hardware chips to orchestral performance?
I’ve got a huge preference for electronic music or hybrid electronic/organic live sounds. The orchestral stuff is very cinematic but often I find they are very generic. John Williams, the Bernsteins, Thomas Newman, etc, they all have a style and they know the importance of melody. I love orchestral music in movies and games, but I think it has far too much dominance these days. I grew up listening to amazing electronic soundtracks in movies but it seems to have been swamped now by orchestral by the numbers soundtracks. But that’s the mass public for you.
Would you be interested in writing music for games today?
Well I have done several in the last couple of years, but as I say there isn’t a big demand for electronic music it seems. At least not my style. But I’m always open to offers of work.
How would you sum up your long career in videogame music?
Successful, but perhaps short-lived. It took decades for me to learn that I actually had a fanbase. It’s good to be back doing music I don’t have to worry about being radio-friendly. It’s back to being naturally creative rather than trying to fit into a certain box.