The union has served us well for 300 years
James Kelly exuded a steely determination when we met to discuss the independence referendum in Glasgow last Friday.
Sources within the Better Together campaign had told me no- one was working harder than James on the campaign trail, but if he is feeling the strain, it doesn’t show.
Our meeting comes at the end of a tough period for Better Together with the impact of the second Salmond-Darlingg debate still being felt (36 hours after our chat, a poll puts Yes ahead for the first time).
Despite the headlines, the Rutherglen MSP remains confident residents in his constituency will back Scotland’s place in the United Kingdom.
And his argument is clear : an independent Scotland would be worse off and less able to deal with the issues that matter to people in Rutherglen and Cambuslang than if the country remained part of the UK.
“We’ve been really pleased with the response we’ve been getting this week.
“I think this has been a really exciting campaign. What I’ve really enjoyed about it is getting out and speaking to so many people in Cambuslang and Rutherglen and what I find is people are really keen to engage on the issues.
“In terms of this week we’ve been picking up a lot of support for No.”
The issues, according to James, range from currency to pensions, and from jobs to housing.
He’s absolutely convinced Scotland is better placed to deal with these issues within the framework of the UK.
And when it’s suggested the union isn’t working for people in areas of deprivation such as Halfway and Whitlawburn, he is adamant a Labour Government at Westminster, rather than separation from the United Kingdom, is the best way to deal with the problem.
“I come from Halfway, I know the issues, and I know some of a deep-seated problems, no-one is going to wave a magic wand for it to change overnight.
“But I’ll make this point, if you have £6billion less in a country’s budget in an independent Scotland, the situation will be much graver in Halfway and Whitlawburn than it would be if we could get a stronger Scottish Parliament and the election of a Labour Government next year, committed to social justice.”
The polls currently point to Labour being the biggest party after next year’s General Election, but if the past few weeks have taught us anything it’s that polls can change dramatically.
And the issue of Scotland getting Governments it doesn’t vote for has been a thorny one for the Better Together campaign, as have the issue of additional powers.
James responds by pointing out additional £2bn borrowing powers as well as tax raising powers will be granted to Holyrood next year, with the promise of more to come.
With people complaining about the lack of clarity on what these issues might be, he says housing benefit should be devolved which would help build more houses in Rutherglen and Cambuslang.
And on the democratic deficit, he says: “I think the problems people in Cambuslang and Rutherglen face are similar to those that people face in Liverpool and Newcastle, and I am not prepared to cut off our family members and brothers and sisters in other parts of England to perpetual years of Tory Government.
“I want to see everyone across the United Kingdom benefiting from a positive Labour agenda that will make a difference.
“I’m not going to be like the SNP and simply look at Scotland and forget about the rest of the UK. I want to help people across these islands that have served us so well for 300 years that the Union has been in place.”
The prospect of Scotland being taken out the EU is another issue the Yes campaign has raised, but James simply says: “The biggest threat to EU membership is the fact that if we vote to go independent we’re then outwith EU membership.”
He adds: “There’s not an automatic transfer, you lose the Scottish part of the £2bn rebate we get.
“Concerns I have are we would be losing more money from the EU, certainly in the short term, and there’s the uncertainty, certainly for businesses and ultimately that doesn’t help local people because it leads to a downturn in the economy and that means there’s less money circulating in Cambuslang and Rutherglen and there’s a potential that jobs could be lost, and people would have less money in their pocket.”
James’ biggest argument throughout our interview is that people need to beware of the consequences.
He references the Institute for Fiscal Studies, who say Scotland would need to make £6bn additional cuts, several times. He describes the SNP position on the NHS as one of the “big lies” of the campaign and “sheer hypocrisy”, and is scathing on Alex Salmond’s assertion that “it’s our pound too,” responding: “It is currently because we’re part of the UK but if you then say ‘I don’t want to be part of the UK’ how can it be ‘our pound’?
“We need to get away from some of the myth, the spins and the assertions from the SNP. You can’t say you want to break away from a country and then say ‘wait a minute, we want to use your currency, and we want to use your bank as a lender of last resort’.” James seems keen to spell out what he thinks independence would mean for the people of his constituency. I put it too him that surely every country should be in control of its own destiny.
“If you want to say ‘let’s take control of our own destiny and cut off the rest of England, Wales, Northern Ireland,’ that’s fine, but that decision has consequences.
“For instance, those consequences would mean we would struggle to deal with the issues we spoke about earlier, social deprivation in Halfway and Whitlawburn.
“We need more housing in Halfway and Whitlawburn, we need more amenities in Halfway and Whitlawburn and these would not be addressed in an independent Scotland, so people might want to argue about taking control of our own destiny but I will not stand back and allow a situation that will mean the communities I represent will be worse off.”
Looking towards September 18, James reckons the debate has walked a tightrope between robust and disrespectful. He speaks about hearing four young lads heading for a Killers concert discussing it on the train, and also points to the words of Jim Sillars, the husband of Margo MacDonald who said both sides could disagree and still get along at her memorial service.
He urges everyone to accept the result, no matter what happens: “I think there’s been a lack of respect at times from the Yes campaign, they’ve tried to devalue certain people’s opinions and I don’t think that’s right, I don’t think that’s fair.
“But there’s a duty on all of us, the Yes and No campaign, Yes and No politicians, to recognise that once the decision is taken we need to move forward and come together and address the issues that are important to people so that we do get a fairer and more just society.” And on the future of the union? “The Union has served us well over 300 years, it’s given us great institutions like the NHS. It’s shown a power to develop, we’ve had the Scottish Parliament which is a great success and I think we can enhance that Scottish Parliament to help local people.”
Now it only remains to be seen of the people of Scotland share James’ faith in the UK.