THE BOKS SPELL DANGER. THIS MEANS SO MUCH TO OUR TROUBLED NATION
J‘The Lions need clarity — sometimes it helps if there’s a gap between your best and second best’
EAN DE VILLIERS is a former South Africa captain and World Cup winner. He was also Jamie Roberts’ opposite number during the Lions series of 2009. The two caught up before Saturday’s first Test in Cape Town and Will Kelleher listened in.
JR: My biggest disappointment about not going to South Africa is not being able to join you for a glass of wine.
JDV: It’s in short supply because alcohol sales are banned. We’re in lockdown week five, but it’s not that hectic apart from 9pm curfews.
JR: Are you surprised the tour is going ahead?
JDV: I feel like applauding everyone each time a game goes ahead. It’s so difficult to balance the safety of human beings and what the Lions tour brings. I just hope nothing bad happens to anyone on tour because of Covid.
JR: Do you think this tour is a huge boost for the community?
JDV: Yeah. So many people I’ve spoken to who’ve contracted the virus say it helps having the rugby on. It takes you away from Covid dominating every conversation. The political situation gives you a high level of anxiety, so the rugby can take us away from all that.
JR: Let’s go back to the 2009 tour — you were the No12, the Damian de Allende position now. Take us back to the first Test.
JDV: I remember watching the 1997 tour as a schoolboy, that Matt Dawson dummy at Newlands, scoring the try in the first Test, and then Jerry Guscott kicking the winning drop-goal. It stayed with me. Fast-forward 12 years, I still carried the scars of 1997. We wanted the opportunity to rectify that.
JR: Did you feel the weight of history?
JDV: 100 per cent. That, added to being world champions. It was an incentive too as it pushed us to achieve something new. What makes playing against the Lions difficult — maybe this year more so — is that you never know who’s going to be selected. In 2009, we knew it was going to be you and Brian O’Driscoll, which helped a bit. I knew your qualities and as a combination you fitted perfectly.
JR: Brian and I struck up a good partnership in two games — sometimes it clicks. He made my job so much easier. There weren’t many one-on-one collisions. It was more a game of chess.
You had Fourie du Preez at No9, and Ruan Pienaar at No10, so we knew kicking would be important. This series is going to be the same — we’ve seen it with what Faf de Klerk and Morne Steyn brought last Wednesday. I thought the first Test would be uber-physical in midfield in 2009, but all the hard work was done in the set-piece! I remember us losing scrums and our maul going in reverse and thinking: ‘Jeez what’s going on?!’
JDV: It felt we got a jump-start on you. The intensity of the forwards, the physicality. It felt we were better prepared and the Lions pack didn’t know what was going to happen. We might have seen that last Wednesday with the A team. I think the Boks missed a trick — the Lions now know what they’re facing.
JR: I agree. The first Test in Durban we knew what was coming — set-piece, big men carrying round the corner — except we hadn’t faced anything like that in the warm-ups. Minutes into the first Test, it happened. Round the corner, round the corner, round the corner and John Smit scores. You’re bang on — the Lions now know what’s coming.
JR: Was the tour like a World Cup to you, having ruptured your biceps and missed most of the 2007 tournament you won?
JDV: It was the pinnacle for me. 2009 was the biggest year of my career. In the first Test, we started well, had it in the bag then the Lions came back and could have easily won. Then the roles reversed. Schalk Burger was yellow-carded for his eye-gouge, the Lions scored, we came back… the ebb and flow of those two games. It easily could have been 2-0 to the Lions. The whole series was amazing and captivating.
JR: It was the best tour I’ve ever been on, regardless of the result. The group of lads we had, the fans, the competitive nature of the fixtures, the Test series — although I was crying after the second Test loss!
JDV: I understand. We played the All Blacks in 2013 at Ellis Park and lost, but it was one of the best Test matches I’ve ever been involved in. JR: Will it be so tight this time? JDV: Mate, it’s so difficult to base your decision on facts as there are so few. The Boks have hardly played and the Lions have an extremely strong squad but I don’t know what the starting XV will be. It’s so competitive in so many positions. JR: Is that a strength? JDV: A weakness. It makes selecting the team difficult.
JR: I find that fascinating. The lads would not have known until late they were going to start the Tests, whereas we had a fair idea by this point in 2009.
JDV: Tadhg Furlong will start at tight-head, Wyn Jones at loosehead, but then I give up!
JR: What’s your 10-12-13 axis? I’ve gone for Dan Biggar, Robbie Henshaw, Chris Harris, but can’t really work it out!
JDV: Go with combinations — I would pick Conor Murray and Biggar, then Bundee Aki and Henshaw. Owen Farrell hasn’t impressed me enough at 12 to throw him in there. And I would go for a guy like you in the midfield to give momentum.
JR: Duhan van der Merwe has to play — he’s the best ball-carrier behind the pack.
JDV: The forwards might get into him as a South African!
JR: What about Alun Wyn Jones — does he start?
JDV: Another good question! Who’s captain? Does Conor give it away? The Lions need clarity.
JR: Will the Boks enjoy the pressure — knowing what it means to the country in troubled times?
JDV: South Africans have this ability — when no one gives us a chance, we stand up and perform. JR: Which way is it going then? JDV: I will go with a 2-1 South African victory again but with all three Tests in Cape Town it might be the other way around.
JR: Playing at sea level is a leveller for the Lions. It’s huge. JDV: I agree. JR: 3-0 Lions, then!