Rugby news Marshall and me... playing and Welsh rugby’s Jordan –
IT’S lovely here, mate,” beams Mike Phillips from the sunkissed garden of his Dubai residence.
Lockdown measures in one of the world’s plushest cities have been eased recently, with cinemas, gyms, restaurants and bars now open for business.
However, in the last few months, restrictions in Dubai have been as tight as anywhere in the world, giving Phillips plenty of time to launch into his latest venture.
In the 40 minutes we spend battling a crackling Facetime connection, Phillips revealed the truth behind his rivalry with All Black great Justin Marshall, what it was like to play alongside another legend in Dan Carter and the Michael Jordan of Welsh rugby.
But let us begin with his newest journey.
The 99-cap scrum-half was recently approached by sports management company World in Motion to join as a rugby consultant.
Clients of the company, including Wales lock Will Rowlands and Dragons winger Ashton Hewitt, are now able to tap into Phillips’ vast knowledge whether it’s to analyse on-field performance or advise on contract negotiations, with the man himself revealing he’s been stung in the past.
“In my experience, a quality agent is something that is so important for a young professional rugby player,” says Phillips.
“I’ve already been part of some players’ negotiations but the main point is that if a player needs me, all they have to do is pick up the phone.
On his own experience of agents, he adds: “I used to have people come in and make promises about sponsorships and whatever.
“I knew they were talking rubbish and a lot of the time you can see it coming from a long way off.
“I had to get rid of a few agents because most of them have got their own agendas.
“There are obviously good ones but there are a lot out there that pull the wool over people’s eyes and it’s not nice to see.
“There are a lot of tricks that can go on behind the scenes in sport and the more experienced boys know it. It’s not helpful.
“It’s about honesty and I’ll just be real with players.”
Talking about contract negotiations, Phillips looked on with envy earlier this year as Irish province Munster wrapped up the signings of World Cup-winners Damian de Allende and RG Snyman.
It led him to ponder why Welsh rugby is no longer seeing the influx of global superstars it once did, particularly during his time at the Ospreys.
The financial climate in Wales is the greatest obstacle but it has prompted the region to reconsider their approach.
Rather than spread the cash out among a handful of overseas players of lesser quality, why not splurge it all on one superstar and expose your academy to make up the numbers?
“Money is the big factor in Wales,” he accepts.
“I just think, though, rather than bring in three or four average foreigners, get one really good one.
“I know it’s tough but Munster have just signed up one of the best centres in the world. That’s just going to add massive value to the youngsters coming through there.
“He’s got all the knowledge about what they did with South Africa to become World Champions.
“Also, when they sign players over there, it’s not just based on the opinions of one or two board members, they ask members of the squad and really canvas their opinion before making the move.
“I know from my time that players’ representatives in teams quite often tend to be filled with yes men who aren’t going to disagree with the board, which is why you have to ask a broad range of people, so you have different opinions.
“It’s great how they do Munster.”
Our journey through a myriad of Welsh rugby’s hottest topics continues apace and next on the agenda is coaching.
Phillips, who has run his own rugby academy in both Dubai and Wales for the last few years, expressed his frustration at the lack of Welsh influence on the coaching scene in the northern hemisphere.
Whilst the former scrum-half insists the right man for the job must be selected for roles regardless of nationality, the fact that no Welshman is deemed qualified enough to warrant consideration grates.
“I totally agree with [Welsh Rugby Union chief executive] Martyn Phillips when he says we need the best coaches plying their trade in Wales,” added Phillips.
“There are some good systems in place now which is great but it’s so strange that we are such a rugby mad nation and we don’t have a head coach at a region.
“The five positions in Wales are all taken up by non-welsh coaches.
“It is a little bit annoying. I don’t feel like we talk ourselves up enough in Wales and that gets under my skin a little bit.
“Having said all this, it has to be the best man for the job. It would just be nice if that man happened to be Welsh.”
He backs current Wales boss Wayne Pivac, adding: “I don’t think there was anyone better than Wayne Pivac to take charge of Wales, I think he was the best man for the job and I think he’ll do a tremendous job for Wales. it in
“When he finishes, I think Wales will be in a far better place than when he started. I think he’ll do a great job.”
On the coaching development pathway in Wales, and in a number of assistant head coaching roles around the world, are a myriad of former Welsh internationals.
One of which is loose-head legend Gethin Jenkins, who has been learning his coaching craft with Cardiff RFC and Wales age grade teams in recent years.
Pivac’s current coaching group is stacked with former Wales internationals and it’s something Phillips is keen to see more of.
“I think there is a lot to be learned from former players and I’ll use Gethin Jenkins,” he says.
“Coached by the likes of Steve Hansen, Warren Gatland, Scott Johnson – there’s all that information in there.
“There’s a group of players from the last 15 years who have so much knowledge to pass on.
“But I think Gethin would be ideal for a head coaching role and perhaps he just needs a bit of time to hone his craft.
“I’ll use this analogy. If Michael Jordan was a head coach and he wanted me out of retirement, I’d go out there and run around like a mad man because I’d want to impress him.
“It wouldn’t necessarily come down to his drills or his coaching but he’d have that aura.
“I think someone like Gethin has been a top performer and I think they should be looked at a little bit more.” Michael Jordan, you say? Yes, Phillips has watched the documentary.
Netflix’s ‘The Last Dance’ has been the talk of the sporting universe since its release last month, chronicling the story of the Chicago Bulls through the Jordan era, with remarkable insight from the basketball icon on his old team-mates.
Phillips was hooked like the rest of us but can he recall a similar character from his playing days?
“It’s difficult because it’s a sport that can be a little bit more about individual talents, whereas rugby is much more of a team game, you need your team-mates more,” he explains.
“But a similar guy would be Shane Williams in the sense that he could just produce a moment of magic out of nowhere and score.”
With a smile, he adds: “At different points in my career, you could have compared me to Michael Jordan, Dennis Rodman or Scottie Pippen. I’ve scored tries, fronted up in defence and been the guy that pulls it all together!”
We need to keep things moving and it’s about time we broached the subject of Justin Marshall.
The All Black scrum-half lifted the lid on the pair’s rivalry before they eventually became team-mates at the Ospreys 2007.
Marshall revealed a series of meetings between the two, that involved a number of verbal grenades being lobbed, leading Marshall to believe that the Welshman didn’t like him.
“It wasn’t like that at all,” rejects Phillips.
“The way I looked at it was: He’s Justin Marshall, he’s got 80 caps, he’s been one of the best in the world and I’m going to try and beat him. I want to be the best in the world.
“He’s arguably one of the best that’s ever played the game and you want to push yourself to be as good as you can be.
“Me giving stick to people on the field was always about me, it wasn’t about anybody else.
“It was to spark that competitiveness in me or maybe, at times, I was a bit nervous or edgy.
“That day he mentioned in Cardiff, I was good mates with a lot of the Ospreys boys like James Hook and Lee Byrne.
“Hooky said after: ‘Fair play, there’s no friends with Mike on the field’.
“I think I caught him in the face a few times. But he’d be the first per