WINKS & JENAS
Harry Winks talks to Jermaine Jenas about past glories, the influence of Pochettino and what the future holds for Tottenham
SITTING on two plastic chairs, in an otherwise empty squash court at a leisure centre just over a mile south of White Hart Lane, two of Tottenham’s No 8s are reminiscing about the last time the club won a trophy.
One of them was on the pitch that day in February 2008 for the League Cup final against Chelsea. The other sat in the top tier at Wembley. Jermaine Jenas took the free-kick four minutes into extra-time and Harry Winks, with his dad, celebrated as Jonathan Woodgate nodded in the winner.
Winks grew up a Spurs fan and joined the academy aged eight. Jenas arrived at Spurs the following year. More than a decade on it’s Winks who wears the shirt. Still only 22, he has become a staple of Mauricio Pochettino’s bright young challengers. Pochettino had the faith in Winks to start him twice against Real Madrid in the Champions League last season, twice again versus Barcelona this term, and against Liverpool. Now, it’s Jenas who cheers on from the side.
JAMES SHARPE listened in as the pair talk Pochettino, midfield heroes and whether this will be the year that Spurs end their trophy drought.
JENAS I heard that you used to go to watch quite a lot of games as a young fan? WINKS I did, yeah! JENAS That must have been amazing. I am from Nottingham, came through the ranks at Forest, a ball boy there too. I am sure you had the same at Spurs.
WINKS I was in the stands watching you! I think I was even a flagbearer for one of your games.
JENAS For you to be able to be on the pitch and draw on your experience of being within the fans, what is that like? Do you have moments where you think you need to dig a little deeper because you know what it feels like to be on the terraces?
WINKS I remember going mad in the living room with my dad when you scored late on in the 4-4 draw against Arsenal. I know what it is like to be a Tottenham fan. I remember these moments. You get that extra sense of feeling of what the fans want.
Right now, what the fans surely want is for their manager to stay. Pochettino has been heavily linked with the Manchester United job following the sacking of Jose Mourinho last month. That must also be a feeling for Winks, too, who has seen his career soar under the guidance of Pochettino.
JENAS Spurs are now a club that is synonymous with bringing through young talent. Who were the players that you saw break through that made you think you could do it?
WINKS Harry (Kane) is probably the prime example. Since the manager has come in, he has taken H to a new level. When the manager first arrived, there was all this talk about wanting to bring young players through and give them the opportunity. That is exactly what he has done.
JENAS A lot of managers say it, but actually telling Harry Winks that he is going to play against Barcelona is completely different…
WINKS To put you in matches of that magnitude, it shows how much faith he has. But he sticks to that as well. He has a clear vision for every player and what he wants to do in a few years. Thankfully, he had a good vision for me and as long as I work hard and try to repay him, then he is loyal enough to give me that opportunity.
JENAS It is more than just that faith? Is there any technical stuff that Mauricio brings to you as a central midfielder? Your game has adapted slightly, especially with the deeper role you have recently.
WINKS The foundations to the gaffer is always about hard work. As an actual tactical and technical manager, he always tries to improve us. If we are playing against an opposition where they will press, he might tell me to go on to that side of the pitch, or stay this side of the striker. He gives a lot of tactical advice to help me out as much as the technical and physical game.
JENAS Having been a central midfielder myself, when I watch you I am impressed by how disciplined you are. I suppose a bit like what Sergio Busquets does for Barcelona: 5-15 yard passes, breaking lines. I have seen you run with the ball and you can go past players better than people give you credit for. But sometimes when you get your head up and see that 60-yard pass, people like me might shout ‘go on, hit it’, but you don’t. You just keep it ticking over. Is that something Mauricio is asking you to do or is that just who you are?
WINKS A bit of both. A lot of it depends on the situation. You know yourself that if you are confident and things are going well, you will just do it instinctively but a lot of the time I like to build myself into the game, try to get as many passes as I can, get the rhythm of the match, and then eventually start to drive a bit, play the big pass, and try to help the game by getting assists and goals. That is an area I need to improve a lot more.
SHARPE You mentioned Busquets. When you were brought into these big games against Barcelona and Real Madrid and you are playing against the likes of Busquets and Modric. What was that like and what do you take from those players when you shared the pitch with them? WINKS You can take something from each of them. Jermaine, you played with Luka. You know how good he is. Playing against him, you can’t get near him.
JENAS It’s frustrating, isn’t it! Try doing it every day in training.
WINKS I can imagine. It must have driven you mad. JENAS It did! WINKS With someone like Busquets, his composure on the ball is unbelievable. I like to take a little bit from every midfielder I have played against, whether it’s physically, technically, tactically, just to try to improve my game.
SHARPE Danny Rose recently called you the ‘Little Iniesta’. So has Pochettino in the past…
WINKS To even be in the same breath as Iniesta is an honour in itself. I’ve got a lot of work to do to get to that level!
SHARPE Was he the player you most admired growing up? Who did you watch and think ‘yeah, I want to be like you’?
WINKS The player who I used to really look up to was Xavi. He was someone who I liked to compare myself to: lots of passes, keep the
ball, help the team tick. He was someone I always used to watch on a Sunday night and try to take everything I could on board that could be good for me.
SHARPE So maybe ‘Little Xavi’ and not ‘Little Iniesta’? WINKS I’ll take either! JENAS Neither were very nice to play against.
WINKS Did you play against both? When you were with England?
JENAS And when they were at Barca. At Newcastle we played them in the Champions League. Barca were a nightmare, as you probably found out, because they have a system where their best players are so protected. In my time, we played a 4- 4- 2, which is so rigid and our midfield was always getting overloaded. Xavi would drop a little deeper but the minute you would go into that space, Patrick Kluivert would drop in behind you. Iniesta came on at St James’ Park. They are built a cer- tain way, and you are similar to that: low centre of gravity, a lot of touches of the ball, and the position you are playing in a diamond suits you perfectly, you get to dictate the game and is probably why you are having so much joy now.
I always felt Barcelona were ahead because every single player was good on the ball. In England, you if the ball went back to a centre-half and you pressed them, they would kick it in the stand. Do that against Barca, and the top teams in England now like Tottenham, it goes back to Toby, to Hugo, then out wide. In your win against Chelsea, you basically played on the edge of your 18-yard box for 40 minutes.
WINKS That is what the gaffer wanted us to do. We worked on that before the game. His philosophy is to play out, keep the ball, have a possession-based game. Everyone buys in to that. We all want to be a part of it. Before the game Mousa and me were working on playing on the edge of the box, the centrebacks split. As much risk as we needed to. If we made a mistake, the gaffer said he’d take the hit for it. IT has not all been so joyous for Winks, though. The midfielder missed the back end of last season with an ankle injury which also put an end to his hopes of playing for England at the World Cup.
WINKS It was tough more for club than country at the time. I missed a lot of matches for Tottenham and after January never really got a run of games. Everyone wants to play at a World Cup. It would have been my dream to go. Unfortunately, I didn’t get the chance. I still watched as a fan. What England did out there was incredible.
SHARPE How has Gareth Southgate been with you?
WINKS Gareth has been fantastic. He is different to the gaffer, they have got different ways of talking to the players, but they have both been fantastic for me. They both help in their own ways. Gareth to give me my senior England debut is something I will never forget. I am lucky enough to say I have worked with two fantastic managers and, hopefully, long may that continue.
JENAS The major criticism of pundits at the World Cup and fans was that the midfield was a bit too rigid. Your game in that possession-based style it seems like you are the perfect person to nail that position down for a number of years now?
WINKS It is something that I would love to do. It is everyone’s dream to play for England and we have got a lot of top players in that midfield and lot of competition. For me to break in there, I have got to keep the form up for club at the top level. There are a lot of players in that position I have got to try to fight off.
WINKS That would be the real top. To go back to Wembley, win the FA Cup, Carabao Cup, anything, even the Premier League. We are still i nvolved in t he Champions League too. To win a trophy with the club would be the icing on the cake. JENAS Those are special moments. I am not overly obsessed with the demand for Spurs to win a trophy. I have been there and I have seen the club go from a team challenging for the Champions League to now seeing what Mauricio is doing. What is the atmosphere like now at the football club: is it starting every season to win the Premier League or a cup?
WINKS Yeah, I think so. The only pressure comes from ourselves. We see what people say in the press that we need to win a trophy. As a club, all we ever do is put pressure on ourselves to try to win something. We know how good we are. We believe we are good enough to win a trophy now and have come a long way since the gaffer has taken over. It would be nice. But it is not the No1 No focus or priority for the club. It is more to go and build every year, and eventually it would be nice to get a bit of silverware.
JENAS I think this is the best Tottenham team we have seen in a long time, but ours had some special individuals. You look at the likes of Modric, Bale… WINKS … Jenas! JENAS Apart from me! Are there any you look at, from being that fan in the stand, and think that they might get into your team right now?
WINKS The list could go on! Yourself, Van der Vaart, Bale, Luka, Ledley King as well. He was fantastic. We have got a top squad now, we had a good squad then too. It would be a good match. SHARPE Who would win? WINKS I don’t know! It would be a very good game. SHARPE Would you be marking each other? JENAS Well, we’d both have the eights on our back. SHARPE Who is getting the best out of that battle? JENAS He’d pass me to death but I would run him to death. WINKS Yeah, that’s about right.
Tottenham Hotspur Football Club helps local residents to lead a healthier lifestyle by delivering free Community NHS Health Checks and Blood Pressure Checks in supermarkets, gyms, libraries and community centres across Haringey. They are running free Community Health Checks in January. For more info, go to tottenhamhotspur.com/the-club/foundation IF Winks keeps up that form for Spurs, not only may it see him nail down a place in the England side but it could also help Tottenham end that 11-year wait for a trophy. Still in the title race, nine points behind leaders Liverpool ahead of a huge match with Manchester United tomorrow. Spurs have a lead over Chelsea in the Carabao Cup semi-final, are into the fourth round of the FA Cup and the knockout stages of the Champions League.
Winks has experienced the joys of seeing Spurs lift a trophy as a supporter. What would be it like for him to do it as a player? Winks believes Spurs are finally ready to win.