RUGBY BANNING ORDERS AFTER TROUBLE AT WALES v NEW ZEALAND?
COLUMNIST
ASENIOR police officer has signalled his support for the introduction of banning orders in rugby, citing the poor behaviour of fans on the day Wales played New Zealand.
Chief Inspector Mark Cleland, of British Transport Police, raised the issue on Twitter, where he said he was “hopeful” of a change in the law.
It sparked a debate on the platform, with some people who had been at the game or in the city citing examples of poor behaviour they had seen.
But a lawyer who has spent years on cases involving banning orders on football fans disagreed with the call to use the “draconian” measures.
Director at Goldstones Solicitors Mark Davies, from Swansea, said: “It’s a very interesting case but it has to be carefully considered.
“The reason that football banning orders were put in place was mainly to deal with opposing hooligan fans who were fighting as a result of football rivalries.
“What we are talking about is general rugby fans and specifically Welsh rugby fans who are becoming anti-social because of drinking. That is a totally different concept.”
Football banning orders are preventative measures issued by the courts either following a conviction for a football-related offence, or following complaint by a police force, BTP or the Crown Prosecution Service. They last a minimum of three years and no more than five.
Chief Inspector Cleland started the discussion when he posted on Twitter on Monday following the match last weekend. He said: “Always a disappointment to review the post-incident crime and see that yet again rugby fans were worse than football fans in Cardiff this weekend with their post-Wales v New Zealand drunken behaviour.”
The tweet was retweeted more than 300 times.
Asked for the number of arrests, he said there had been two arrests, six violent crimes and more than 20 incidents of escalating disorder prevented by early police intervention.
Then asked how those figures compared to the last major football match or a normal Saturday night in Cardiff, he said: “Last Wales international we had no incidents. No such thing as a normal Saturday night, each weekend is different, sometimes arrests, sometimes nothing.”
Asked whether police have to deal with more anti-social behaviour or violence from people who have attended rugby matches, he said: “Recently, if you compare a Saturday with a rugby Saturday, we’ve had an increase in violent crime offences due to the rugby event, generally within the queues as the stadium empties – night-time economy also generates crime, though.”
And asked if anti-social behaviour was linked to excessive drinking rather than “specifically a rugby crowd”, he said: “Rugby draws the crowd. Crowd drinks excessively. Crowd behaves anti-socially. I don’t have the same dynamics with football right now, or theatre-goers or cricketers. So, yes, for me rugby is a problem, but not rugby the sport, rugby the drinking culture.”
He was also asked on Twitter when the police would be “kicking their doors in at 4.30am banning them from matches and taking passports”.
He replied: “When the law changes to include rugby and other sports in the legislation you are talking about? Until then it’s just good old fashioned arrests. Although happy to do that at 4.30am.”
Asked “Is there going to be a change in the law?” he replied: “Hopefully. One for the law-makers and prime minister, I reckon.”
Responding to his tweet, retired Welsh hockey player Beth Fisher, a director of Welsh Cycling, said: “I had a horrible experience with my uncle at the game on Saturday. Five drunk men who were aggressive and abusive. I’m never going back. Totally ruined the whole experience.”
She said her uncle, who has short arms caused by thalidomide, was abused after asking a group to stop blocking their view.
Another fan who witnessed the abuse, Geraint Evans, has written a letter of complaint to Welsh Rugby Union (WRU) chairman Gareth Davies. The WRU said they take all complaints seriously and they are “legally bound” not to serve people who look intoxicated.
And journalist Carolyn Hitt said: “We had horrible experience at Australia match with bloke who turned out to be a club committee man. He’d know his rugby, just too bladdered to behave like a decent human being. Wales has drink problem per se, not just Welsh ‘event- goers’.”
Chief Inspector Cleland is a “silver commander” in charge of events. On the Saturday of the Wales v New Zealand game, he posted: “Officers to a brawl on a train at Cardiff Central after male urinating on board the service. He’s been removed and we’re dealing with him.”
The discussion is not the first time a senior member of the British Transport Police – which polices Britain’s railways – has been scathing of the behaviour of Welsh rugby fans.
In 2016, Superintendent Andrew Morgan criticised “middle-aged men, in particular, who think that they can behave any way they like”.
He described their behaviour as a “nightmare”, a “disgrace” and said he would like to confront them with video evidence of their misbehaviour when they return to work in their suits after matchday.
His colleague, Chief Inspector Sandra England, suggested there was a particular problem for Wales and Welsh people to confront, saying: “These middle-aged men who turn into drunken idiots – it’s a cultural issue for us. The pubs and clubs are rammed with people going out on ‘all-dayers’.”
But lawyer Mark Davies said: “My experience of banning orders are that they have been used when opposing fans have been involved. And the example the Chief Inspector was referring to is just drunkenness on a Saturday night. The statute book already contains a number of laws which cover drunken behaviour. If you assault someone you get arrested. What exactly would it achieve?”
Mr Davies said that using banning orders in similar situations outlined by the Chief Inspector would “probably not” work as a preventative measure.
He said: “How do you stop someone getting drunk?”
Mr Davies, a member of the Welsh Law Committee, said: “Although there may be a problem with drunkenness with rugby fans, using these draconian measures is a different story.”
The South Wales Police and Crime Commissioner claimed rugby fans acting “aggressively and rudely” could damage Cardiff’s long-standing reputation to be a safe and enjoyable place to watch rugby.
Speaking to BBC Radio Wales yesterday, Alun Michael said: “If we have people continually behaving unpleasantly, aggressively and rudely then you are going to see an increase in the calls for alcohol to be banned [at games].
“Behave well because we have a reputation for Cardiff being a safe and pleasant place, whether it’s for rugby internationals or for other big events. If that is undermined by people failing to behave responsibly and politely then we will suffer as a nation.”
THERE are few things worse, as a sports fan, than to be at a match you’ve long looked forward to, only for your experience to be ruined by a misbehaving idiot you happen to sit next to.
I know, it’s happened to me many times in the past.
It’s almost always the big occasions.
Drunken morons have affected – maybe not totally ruined – my enjoyment of, for example, Wales’ World Cup qualifier against Romania in 1993, Cardiff City’s epic FA Cup match against Leeds in 2002, as well as the experience of moving to a new ground when things got heated after an exchange about racist language from a gang of inebriated fans sitting behind us at the Cardiff City Stadium.
And that’s not to mention the times when I’ve been at games “marred” by more orchestrated disruption and outright violence.
I was in the Grandstand at Ninian Park in 1993 when Swansea fans – sitting in the same stand as us – started hurling seats at the family enclosure before a pitch invasion by Cardiff fans ensued.
It ended only when the horses and police dogs were brought on to the pitch. For a 13-year-old geekily obsessive Cardiff City fanatic it was a frightening experience that’s been variously described as “the worst violence I’ve ever seen anywhere in my life” by one senior police officer, to the absolute low point in the history of south Wales football violence.
In the 25 years since much work has gone into making the football matchday experience an enjoyable one for everyone – whether you want to have a few pints with your mates, or whether you’re taking your family for an afternoon out.
Incidents like the 1993 clash between Swansea City and Cardiff City fans are consigned to YouTube videos for the nostalgic and newspaper features about the most notorious derbies in world football.
Football fans are far from perfect still. And why would we expect them to be? For as long as human beings misbehave, then so will sports fans.
But football has been cleaned up, thanks in no small part to its gentrification, but also because of zero tolerance on misbehaviour, and restrictions on drinking during a game.
The idea of introducing footballstyle banning orders to rugby has been suggested after a string of incidents on the day Wales played New Zealand.
The Chief Inspector of British Transport Police in Wales, Mark Cleland, said he’s hopeful of a change in the law, citing on Twitter the huge resource needed to police rugby weekends in Cardiff.
He’s the latest police officer to voice concerns about the behaviour of rugby fans.
This isn’t planned, sinister violence like football hooliganism – it’s drunken disorder and low-level criminal damage, it’s late-night domestic violence after an all-dayer on the booze. The statistics tell the story. Mr Cleland’s comments on Twitter sparked predictable debate and criticism – how dare you cite rugby fans as badly behaved, this is a minority, why are you singling out rugby when football is just as bad, etc – but also drew forward people with bad experiences of their own.
Ex-Wales hockey player Beth Fisher said she and her uncle were abused by drunks after complaining they were blocking their view (her uncle, who has short arms caused by thalidomide, had complained they were blocking their view).
It seems a recurring theme from Wales’ big international seasons in autumn, and then in late winter when it’s Six Nations time.
And this is a difficult thing for the authorities to tackle.
Much of Cardiff ’s leisure economy needs these rugby internationals to sustain it for the rest of the year.
They’re the big-ticket occasions guaranteed to bring punters to the bars, drawing thousands of revellers into the city centre.
To tackle the problem, rugby must first admit there is one. Then it could look to football to see how that sport has changed the dynamic of its matchday experience.
While you might be able to buy booze at grounds these days – to a much greater level than was ever possible when I started watching Cardiff City in the mid-80s – there are restrictions.
Nobody can take a pint out to their seat with them, drunken behaviour is almost always dealt with promptly by stewards. Fans are treated with respect and given trust, with the acknowledgment from both sides – fans and the authorities – that trust can only go so far.
Banning orders are used to make idiots think twice about what they’re doing, and punish offenders by starving them of their sporting passion.
Fewer and fewer people are being subjected to them with each passing season – there were 1,929 handed out across Wales and England between 2016 and 2017, down by 7% on the previous year.
Arguments prevail in the supporters’ community about their fairness, about restrictions on freedom, about misuse. But the general rule of thumb should be, if you abide by the law then you have nothing to worry about.
In south Wales the police force has worked for years on fostering a decent relationship with fans and treating them as human beings.
There’s very much a light-touch approach to policing games now, a contrast to the way things were done in the 80s and early 90s.
Like football, but in an even more fundamental way to the culture, drink is a part of the rugby day out in Cardiff.
Ultimately, it’s up to the sport itself to tackle misbehaviour in the ground.
If the rugby authorities are serious about doing that, then they have to start thinking about taking a financial hit in their stadium bars.