“You play to win, you don’t play to earn money... You need to feel it”
The Universidad Catolica coach talks basketball, derbies and the Copa Libertadores
Your father Washington was a successful basketball player. How much influence did he have on you?
He wanted to play football, but life and friends and luck took him to play basketball and he did very well. I’ve always had a strong relationship with basketball, it’s a sport I like a lot. I played it when I was young. But he was always pushing me and my brother to play football; what he couldn’t do himself he wanted his kids to do.
Being a professional sportsman, did your father instil competitiveness in you?
No doubt. And also I have to say, for a very long time he was still recognised. His popularity was bigger than mine, especially for older people. Maybe after I won the Copa America in 1995, I achieved something with the national team. Then it was like, “OK, he’s not anymore the ‘son of’, now he’s got a name for himself.” But at the beginning, in every news item that came [about me] there was always a reference to my father.
Did basketball influence your football?
Every sport has something you can use in others. In basketball, the positioning when defending is pretty similar. When you’re marking a man you need to see the ball, and the basket needs to be behind you; if something is not in that triangle of perfection, something is wrong.
Did the encouragement to keep on studying also come from your parents?
When I was young, the deal for me to be able to play outside on the streets was that I had to do my homework. It became a habit: get home, eat quickly and then out, football! I didn’t stop until I got to university, and by then I was playing for the Under-20s national team. That’s when I realised, “OK, this is serious,” and I stopped in my first year. Everyone has a time and that was my time. I was playing for River Plate, in Uruguay.
I was studying engineering. I liked numbers, I liked problems. I always liked maths. I did the exams in the first year of university. I passed chemistry and I failed computers.
Do you get on with computers now?
Are you a laptop manager now?
Yes, I am. I’m not an expert in many things, but I use [technology] a lot. We use an app for training, which allows us to register everything and all of the [training] data. It’s a great tool.
You’ve spent more of your life in Europe than in Uruguay now. What Uruguayan characteristics do you carry with you, as a person and as a football manager?
There are two things that come straight into my mind. One is the passion that comes from inside – that is Uruguayan, 100 per cent. And the second is what we call the rules. You learn things in Uruguay when you’re small, in football and in life, which become part of you. One very simple example: nothing comes out the dressing room, nothing! The dressing room is our house; nobody knows what is going on inside the house. I learned that when I was very young.
But obviously you go to different countries and different things happen. For example, I like to name the team the day before the game. In England that was no problem, but when I went to Greece, the team was always in the Saturday morning newspapers, because somebody from inside the team was telling everyone. So, I had to stop, as I didn’t want the opposition to prepare.
Do you think there’s anything in your approach to football that’s Uruguayan?
The passion. Convincing the team that defeat is the worst thing that can happen; it hurts. There are three results in football: winning, drawing and losing, but that doesn’t mean you accept defeat like it’s part of life. No! It has to hurt, because you play to win, you don’t play to earn money. No, no, you play to win. You need to feel it.
Uruguay is a small country that has consistently overachieved in football.
We know we need to make an effort bigger than the rest; we know it’s going to be more difficult. I don’t think many people want to compete against us, because they know we don’t accept defeat as a part of our life. I always believe that one Uruguayan player in any team in the world is a great asset. We are team players. It’s very rare that you find an outstanding Uruguayan player that you can say is selfish. Another thing that I think is important, is that when we go to a club, that club and our family is the most important. Which means that you become a fan of that club, you are part of that club. It gives a little bit extra.
Even players who are as good as
Luis Suarez and Edinson Cavani?
You can see with that example. They want to win.
You’ve also spent a long time in England, as a player and as a manager. What do you see as English football’s characteristics?
There are three or four things that are important. One is that the fans recognise your effort. As soon as they see you’re 100 per cent involved in the team, you are part of that club forever. It is not like that in other parts of the world.
The other thing that is incredible is the pace of the game – the intensity is from another world! If you’re not ready for it, you won’t be able to play many years there. It took a few months for me to adapt, and I suffered in the beginning. But when you get it and you go to play somewhere else, you go: “Come on! Quicker!” Everything seems slower.
You really did embrace it too. You became a classic, box-to-box English midfielder.
I was 29 years old when I arrived and I had the chance to play in Spain, nice and relaxed, renew my contract with Zaragoza and stay there forever. But something in my head said: “Football in England is perfect for you.”
But when I came it was a shock. The first game was the Charity Shield with Chelsea and the first 20 minutes I couldn’t get into the game [laughs]. The game was 100 miles an hour and I was two miles an hour! I remember Ruud Gullit, the coach, said to me at half-time: “Gus, you’re not getting up, you’re not getting down. Get on with the game.” I said: “I’m trying! It’s too quick.” Then you got used to it. Well, there were many things that happened. I got injured in my first year. Even if it’s a bit of a contradiction, the injury helped me. I was watching and learning the language and seeing what was needed from the inside. That’s the key. Not watching from home. So when I came back the same season, I was in a better position than when I arrived in the summer of 1997. Who were your influences as a manager? I don’t think there is the perfect manager – they all have something. Ruud, for example, had an incredible way of dealing with pressure. For him, it was 100 per cent football in the morning. Then the rest of the day, it’s life. I couldn’t believe it in the beginning. I thought: “I’m football 24/7”. But he’s got a point, you are crazy if you are 24/7 all the time; you have to separate football from life. What does a perfect Gus Poyet team look like? What characteristics would it have? I think the team that represents me has to respect the football, first. Be really organised, have passion and a winning mentality.
I think I achieved that in most places. Brighton was the best, without any doubt. Sunderland was the one with the biggest repercussion worldwide because it was the Premier League. That was amazing. And then AEK Athens and Bordeaux, I had really good results, especially in derbies. You’re a derby specialist: at Sunderland you won three derbies against Newcastle. Before I went to Sunderland I thought I would manage Newcastle one day. Their fans wanted to hate me because I always scored against them. But at the same time, they were thinking: “Why not have him with us?” When you cannot beat your opposition, join. That was my thinking. Then I went to Sunderland, which was a problem for Newcastle fans, and on top of that, I played three times and I beat them three times. It doesn’t help. It’s like Uruguayan football. You make the players understand how important that [derby] game is and the result has to be only one: winning. You won the big derbies in Athens as well. Three. I call it three because at that time there was Olympiakos, Panathinaikos, AEK and PAOK that were playing for the league and I won all three in a month and a half, 1-0, 1-0, 1-0. The most important was Olympiakos, because they were unbeaten and were going to win the league unbeaten. The fans were telling me: “Don’t let them win unbeaten.” And when we did it, it was massive. I’m sure I will work again in Greece. What were those atmospheres like? Wow! My first game, I’ll tell you what happened. I got the job on Thursday, the team played the day before, so I met the players on Friday and warmed down and nothing else, then Saturday we did a little bit of training. On Sunday it was Panathinaikos-AEK, away derby in Athens. I remember people from the club saying: “If you want you can sit in the directors’ box and watch the game.” I said: “No chance, I’m going down there. I’m not missing this derby.” And it was unbelievable! I’ve never been in a place like that. There were so many flares. And so much smoke that we couldn’t start the game for five or six minutes. I couldn’t see anyone! When you left Sunderland, you made a conscious decision to go abroad. Why? I wanted to get out of England because when you are there, you only focus on English football. So I said: “It would be nice to see something different.” And to be honest my idea was to get out and come back. Incredibly, I went from Greece to Spain to China to France. I wanted to come back. People were calling me from other countries, I was saying: “No. No. No.” But after a year and two, three months, I thought
I needed to open up again to the world.
Tell us about you time in China. Why
did you go to Shanghai Shenhua?
It was the timing. It was two weeks after I finished in Spain [with Real Betis]. I had doubts; I was not convinced that it was the right move. But after talking to my staff, we all decided to go together. In football it wasn’t great, but the experience, personally, was magnificent. I wouldn’t change my decision at all. It was a massive life experience. They are so different to us. A different way of understanding life and playing sports.
What shocked you culturally?
They believe in luck more than in Europe. A lot. They are strong believers in luck, or how you can help luck with numbers, colours, or different things. Until you are there you don’t realise how important it is for them. Then the way of living, the cities, the quantity of people. Anything you do is hundreds and hundreds of people in the street, in the lobbies, in the lift, everywhere you go. There are people everywhere. In the beginning it shocks you. I had to stay a couple of months over there after I finished my contract, to see China. I had a great personal experience.
A lot was said about Carlos Tevez’s time with you at Shanghai. What is your recollection of that time with him and his performances?
My feeling is that he thought he was going – and I did as well – to a team that was better than the one he found. I thought we would be able to win the league. He went with that mentality and it was something different. It wasn’t as we thought it would be. I think that coming from big teams where he’s used to winning, it was a bit of a shock.
And he was unlucky, because when he was at his best, he got injured. It took him time to come back, and when he came back, we decided that he needed to play to get back to his best and not just wait. So, I started playing him and he was not 100 per cent. He played an incredible game against Beijing Guoan, that we won at home, but three days later he got injured again in the same calf. He was out for a long time, and then I left.
It was a disappointment and then, I always say, when you are not happy, you get injured. But it was good to meet him and know him as a person.
You spent some time away from football before joining Universidad. Did you miss it?
I missed the relationship with the players. When it works, the consequences of that relationship with those players, when you stay in touch with them for life and you meet them somewhere and they remember something that you did together, there is no better feeling. When you win it’s magnificent. But when you can’t win because you are not in the top teams, the best you can have is feelings from players and fans. When I meet Sunderland fans, they remember the wins or the [2014 League Cup] final. That’s what football is all about.
Why did you choose Universidad Catolica?
When I left Bordeaux, my first idea was to get back to England. But after being in England for a year and not getting the job I wanted, I opened myself to the whole world again. When I came back to Uruguay I wanted to do a few things in football and people were telling me: “No, it’s not possible.” During the [Catolica] interview, I really liked the people and the opportunity. And because this team had won the last three league titles [in Chile] and had the possibility of playing international games [in the Copa Libertadores], I thought it was a good chance to prove that personal challenge in a very good place.
Do you feel the club provides the right structure for you to achieve your aims?
Well, yes. My friends said: “Why do you go there? They’ve been champions for the last three years, you’ve got nothing else to achieve.” But there are always things to achieve. First was the supercup. Right or wrong, it’s a final and you need to win it. It was a big derby against Colo-Colo and we won. And the second is the international games. It’s the first time in ten years that Catolica have gone past the group stage [of the Libertadores]. So far, results wise it’s been very good because everything that was asked, we’ve been able to deliver. The most important one obviously is to win the championship and make it four in a row – it would be the first time in Catolica’s history.
How much of an achievement is progressing to the knockout stages of the Libertadores?
Colo-Colo won the Copa Libertadores in 1991 and Catolica never. That shows you how difficult it is to get through. Then there is the financial side. The Argentinian and Brazilian teams have plenty of power, financially. And even on top of that, at the beginning of the Libertadores, there were seven Argentinian teams and eight Brazilian teams. It makes no sense, I don’t think it’s fair. In our group we won three and lost three, but we went through, which is a great achievement.
And what was the final group game like against Atletico Nacional of Colombia?
It was like a final. When we arrived in the stadium one of the players had a temperature so we sent him home. I didn’t have a right-back because my other right-back tested positive. So, we had to change the team shape an hour before the game. There was a bit of tension.
Luckily it worked. It was magnificent.
“The game was 100 miles an hour and I was two miles an hour!”