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This in­ter­view se­ries fo­cuses on the peo­ple in Santa Fe’s real-es­tate in­dus­try. Philip Gud­win is an as­so­ciate bro­ker at Santa Fe Prop­er­ties.

You were a co-owner of French & French Fine Prop­er­ties with Michael and Pat French.

I was, and a few decades be­fore that I was in your game, while I was go­ing to art school. I worked for the New York Times sports de­part­ment for two years as a clerk and I did free­lance pho­tog­ra­phy for them. I shot for mag­a­zines and news­pa­pers around New York. Are you do­ing any­thing with all those pho­tos? I just dig­i­tized about a thou­sand of them. I shot a lot of anti-war and women’s-lib stuff in­Wash­ing­ton and all over the East Coast and some on theWest Coast. I had a press pass dur­ing one of theMay Day demon­stra­tions. I putmy press pass away and got my­self ar­rested and I snuck the Le­ica into jail. There were all these out­cries about how they were dump­ing 15 or 20 kids into the jail cells, but no news­pa­per would print what I shot. At that point, be­fore the Pen­tagon Pa­pers, the Times and all of them were in ca­hoots with the gov­ern­ment. Where were you born and raised? Brook­lyn. I at­tended Eras­mus [Hall High School], which at the time was the largest in the coun­try. Then I went to Brook­lyn Col­lege and Brook­lyn Mu­seum Art School for sculp­ture. What was fu­el­ing your idea of be­ing a sculp­tor? I grew up in kind of an arty en­vi­ron­ment. My par­ents owned a paint and wall­pa­per/arts and crafts sup­ply store, a lit­tle mom-and-pop shop, and my mom was a ceram­i­cist. I was al­ways good with my hands. I ran a small con­tract­ing com­pany there; we built the first Pot­tery Barn stores in New York and Prince­ton and Con­necti­cut. I showed my sculp­ture at a gallery in Soho, on Spring Street, for a while.

When I was 21, I got fired from the Times af­ter the FBI called them be­cause they were up­set that I was vis­it­ing the Ber­ri­gan broth­ers in Ohio, although I was just hang­ing out and do­ing pho­tog­ra­phy. I was re­in­stated, slapped on the wrist: “You can’t do that.” But the Times was a bril­liant com­pany to work for.

I fol­lowed the [Grate­ful] Dead in 1969-70 across the coun­try, to Boul­der, then I hitch­hiked to Taos and lived there for six months in a com­mune. Where? Hondo? Yeah, Hondo. Then on to Cal­i­for­nia for a cou­ple years: Venice. I was up in Berekely do­ing some street the­ater and I did com­mer­cial tuna fish­ing off the Cal­i­for­nia coast for a while. I was on a very small boat. It was just two of us on a 40-foot trawler out for a week or two at a time and we could han­dle about seven tons: hand-lin­ing the tuna, pulling them over, and ic­ing them down. Then you bought a house and be­came a Re­al­tor. No, I went back to New York, I did the art thing, tried to make it. Then to Santa Fe. You know, Santa Fe, even back in the ‘60s and ‘70s, was in theNew York Times at least once a month. Some­thing was hap­pen­ing here all the time. Amaz­ing. You can go any­where in the world and say “Santa Fe” and they’ll knowwhat you’re talk­ing about. I was in Burma last month. I’d men­tion Santa Fe to peo­ple and they’d say, “Oh, yeah.” I’m walk­ing down the street in Greece, in the mid­dle of nowhere, and there’s a Santa Fe Café. So you’re back in New York, try­ing to make it. So any­way, it seemed like NewYork­was just get­ting too pressed. Pho­tog­ra­phy there was get­ting very ag­gres­sive. Com­pet­i­tive? Nasty com­pet­i­tive. I lived in­West­beth, an artist hous­ing project that was de­vel­oped by the feds and the Rock­e­fellers. It was 360 stu­dios and apart­ments all for the arts. I was hang­ing out with some amaz­ing peo­ple. Pho­tog­ra­phers Diane Ar­bus and Leonard Freed. Bella Abzug was around. The guy liv­ing next to me was a black South African who got ex­iled be­cause he did an ex­posé on apartheid. Was there jazz go­ing on? Gil Evans. Gil Evans who worked with­Miles Davis. Yeah. I used to re­pair some ofGil’s gui­tars. I met Miles through him. When did you get into real es­tate? I got my li­cense in New York in 1976. I was do­ing leas­ing in the Soho/Noho area while I was do­ing everything else. Then I moved to Santa Fe in 1978 and I also moved my cab­i­net shop and sculp­ture stu­dio here. By 1980 I was fo­cus­ing on real es­tate.

You were set­tling down— and just get­ting go­ing when rates were up to 16, even 17 per­cent.

Yeah, thewrong time to get into real es­tate. But you learned how to be creative. I loved Santa Fe. It was cul­tured and so­phis­ti­cated in a lot of dif­fer­ent ways and it was still out­doorsy. What did a city boy know about out­doorsy? Oh, we’d go camp­ing up in­Har­ri­man State Park in the Catskills. At 12 or 13 years old, four or five of us would get on the bus and jump in a cou­ple of cabs to the trail­head and we’d go in for four or five days. Did you marry? Yes, here. In 1980, I met my wife, Bar­bara. She was work­ing for Santa Fe Moun­tain Cen­ter. She’s a river rat. She ba­si­cally be­layedme offmy first cliff and took me downmy first white­wa­ter. On the Rio Grande? Yes. Bar­bara is my hero. She was the di­rec­tor of the Girls Club. She was apointed by Mayor Pick as the head of the chil­dren’s youth com­mis­sion. She has chaired the Bucka­roo Ball and served on the school board. Most im­por­tantly right now, she’s board pres­i­dent of Com­mu­ni­ties in Schools of New Mex­ico.

We have two daugh­ters, 30 and 25. Sari is in South Carolina work­ing in health and safety for GE andAriel is in grad school in­Ar­ling­ton get­ting a master’s in con­flict res­o­lu­tion. How is busi­ness? For the past eight years, I’ve been work­ing mostly in com­mer­cial real es­tate. I’m proud to work in the real-es­tate com­mu­nity here. I’ve worked all over the coun­try and I think Santa Fe un­equiv­o­cally is one of the best, from an in­tegrity stand­point, the hon­esty, and the sin­cer­ity. And it’s been­won­der­ful to grow up in an in­dus­try here­with allmy peers, who are still work­ing. Are you do­ing vol­un­teer work? I’m on the Cit­i­zens Review Com­mit­tee for the School Board. I’m on the pro­fes­sional stan­dards com­mittes for both the Santa FeAs­so­ci­a­tion of Real­tors and the Real­tors As­so­ci­a­tion of New Mex­ico. What do you like do­ing in your spare time? I love fish­ing and I like golf. Bar­bara and I go hik­ing. We travel. Arts. The­ater. Food. This is a great town for food.


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